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Author Topic: Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE  (Read 1846 times)

Offline rhollman

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« on: September 16, 2013, 05:07:09 PM »
I am planning to get a Concealed Carry Permit but... it looks like if... you register your handgun with Omaha Police Department, then... the OPD will grant a permit to have the handgun in Omaha city limits - this much I understand (right or wrong this is what the city ordinance says).  So, if I do not get a Concealed Carry Permit and instead do get a OPD permit, my question is... while I am driving my vehicle in Omaha NE, with a OPD permit (and no Concealed Carry Permit) would the handgun have to be unloaded while it is with me in the vehicle??



Offline pianoman

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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 05:22:45 PM »
Handgun registration with the police department is required if you do not have a CCW permit.  Handgun registration is simply to let OPD know there's a handgun in the city and is separate from the "open carry permit" that Omaha requires if you want to open carry and do not have a CCW permit.  (http://www.safenebraska.org/safe-working/concealed-carry-handgun-training.php

In short, if you do not have your CCW or open carry permit with the city, you would need to have your gun unloaded, broken down, locked in the trunk, or whatever else may be necessary to avoid the city ordinances for what constitutes open carry and concealed carry. 

I'm still at the office or I'd look up more definitions/ordinances for ya, but that's it in a nutshell.
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 08:11:05 PM »
Here's the Whole Bloomin' Story:

OMAHA HANDGUN REGISTRATION
OMAHA MUNICIPAL CODE
Sec. 20-251. [Registration] Required.


(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to own, have possession of, or maintain control over any concealable firearm which has not been registered to said person with the chief of police in accordance with this division, except when:

  (i) such possession or control is with the knowledge and express consent of the person in whose name such concealable firearm is registered; or
 
  (ii) the owner, possessor or transporter is in compliance with the laws of the State of Nebraska under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act or has a valid license or permit to carry a concealed handgun issued by any other state or the District of Columbia if
 
       (1) the holder of the license or permit is not a resident of Nebraska and
       (2) the Nebraska Attorney General has determined that the standards for issuance of such license or permit by such state or District of Columbia are equal to or greater than the standards imposed by the State of Nebraska.

Basically, the above law says that any concealable handgun located in Omaha must be registered w/Omaha Police Department unless the owner has a Concealed Handgun Permit, either NE or reciprocated w/NE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMAHA OPEN CARRY PERMIT[Handgun Identification Card]
OMAHA MUNICIPAL CODE
Sec. 20-207. Firearm training program.


(a) A training program to qualify persons in the safe use of firearms shall, after review and approval by resolution by the city council, be established and operated by the city, which may contract with private organizations or use the services of other agencies, or may use a combination of the two, to provide such training.    Said resolution shall be submitted to the city council on or before December 21, 1993.

(b) A fee shall be charged each person attending the training program.   The city shall set out a reasonable fee, to be set by the city council, after review and approval by said resolution, which shall include the cost of training, to be paid to the licensed training facility, and to the city.

(c) An identification card on a form approved by the city shall be issued to each person who successfully completes the training program.

(d) The training program shall consist of eight to ten hours of classroom training and education and two hours of practical firearm operation at an approved shooting range.

(e) The city shall prescribe such procedures as may be necessary for its operation in conformity with the provisions of this article.

(f) The city shall have complete control over the training program and shall decide upon the qualifications of all applicants.

(g) An applicant for the training program shall fill out a form stating his or her full name, social security number (optional), residence, age, whether applicant has ever been convicted of a felony, whether the person is addicted to the use of alcohol or any controlled substance, whether the person has any history of mental illness, and whether the person has ever been convicted of a misdemeanor involving acts of violence.

(h) The identification card shall be valid for three years from the date of issuance.

(i) The identification card may be renewed every three years provided that:

(1) The applicant pays a reasonable recertification fee, as set by the city council.

(2) The applicant has not violated, or is currently charged with violating, any applicable provision of this Code, state law or city ordinance, rule or regulation during the past three years.

(j) The identification card may be revoked by the city for the violation of any applicable provision of this Code, state law or city ordinance, rule or regulation, or if the identification card was issued to an unqualified applicant.

(k) Waivers may granted to those who can provide evidence of satisfactory completion of either a United States armed forces or a nationally recognized handgun firearms training program.

(Ord. No. 33113, § 8, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, § 2, 6-17-97)

Sec. 20-208. Issuance of identification card.


Upon successful completion of the firearm training program, an identification card shall be issued with the approval of the city bearing a distinguishing number assigned to the card holder, the full name, date of birth, sex, residence address, expiration date, and a brief description and colored photograph of the card holder.

(Ord. No. 33113, § 9, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, § 3, 6-17-97)

Basically, the above Omaha Code says that Open Carriers in Omaha must possess a valid Omaha Handgun Identification Card [that's what it's called].

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Section Seems to OK Omaha Open Carry for Concealed Handgun Permit Holders
Previously Posted on this Forum by IvanAwfulItch on 25 February 2009

Ivan writes:
I finally got tired of searching and sent an email directly to Marty Conboy, Omaha City Prosecuter, about open carrying legally.   Basically, if you already have your Nebraska Concealled Handgun Permit, you can legally carry concealed or open in Omaha. Now we all need to open carry so the public will get used to seeing it.

This is what transpired;


[M Conboy to IAI]

It would require the concealed carry permit authorized by the state.  Once you get that, you can carry either concealed or open in Omaha.


This second hand email, purportedly from Marty Conboy, says that if you have a valid NE or reciprocated Concealed Handgun Permit, you can Open Carry in Omaha.   I've seen it before posted in other venues.   Marty Conboy is no longer Omaha City Prosecutor.   Paul Kratz is now in that position.    Will he honor that old email?   To find out, ask him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My recommendation is always to look up the actual NE State Statutes and Omaha Municipal Codes, because THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF MISINFORMATION FLOATING ALL AROUND and a lot of it comes from NE Certified Handgun Training & Safety (Concealed Handgun Permit) Instructors.


I cringe a lot when sharing the podium with my colleagues.
[And who knows.......they may just cringe right back.]

sfg


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Offline HuskerXDM

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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 08:42:52 PM »
So to summarize... If its a handgun in Omaha city limits you have to have it registered with the city.  The only way out of that registration is to get a CHP because state law overrides city ordinance.

Offline rhollman

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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 08:53:38 PM »
Thank you SemperFiGuy and Pianoman, you did indeed confirm what I already know, and yes I have a printed copy of Omaha Municode, part II, chapter 20, article VII - Weapons, but.... in reading all that municipal code, I agree, the best thing to do is get a concealed carry permit, but am still curious if... I or someone would instead choose to go the route of OmahaPoliceDept, the Omaha municpal code makes it look like yes you have your omaha permit but no, you cannot have it plainly visible and loaded in your car. 

Perhaps I can answer my own question because Sec 20-206 Carrying Weapons says ... unlawful to... transport concealable firearm in a motor vehicle except... (5) unloaded.. inside a closed container... inside a luggage compartment... not readily accessible, or (9) person having obtained and display a city ID card showing completion of firearm training sec 20-207, or (10) person carrying a valid concealed carry permit.

So, if I am reading correctly, if the weapon is registered with police department, and if have completed the safety training, then it looks like the handgun could be loaded in the vehicle if in plain sight.  But, maybe the police officer does not know the law and issues you a ticket anyway saying prove your innocence in court because some years ago, I called the police to verify I can target practice with a pellet gun in Omaha (because my neighbor was telling me to stop).  The police officer on the phone said, if we come to your house, we would probably just write a ticket and then you and the judge can talk about it - (wow).

Although it looks like a handgun registered with city police, and proof of taken the safety course should allow carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle in plain sight, I think I will still go get the concealed permit.  But, how does anyone else read that city code, does it really allow open carry of a loaded handgun in a vehicle if you have registered the handgun with omaha city police and can show proof of the safety class??

Offline SemperFiGuy

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 10:32:13 PM »
rhollman

You've got it right here (from your narrative, above):

   "unlawful to... transport concealable firearm in a motor vehicle except... (5) unloaded.. inside a closed container... inside a luggage compartment... not readily accessible, or (9) person having obtained and display a city ID card showing completion of firearm training sec 20-207, or (10) person carrying a valid concealed carry permit."

The City ID card [Handgun Identification Card] is your license/permit to carry your handgun openly and loaded in your automobile within Omaha city limits.

Which will then result in every Soccer Mom in a Minivan calling 911 and reporting "Man With Gun".    And we can all hope that the LEO who pulls in behind with the gumballs going also is conversant with the law.    LEOs are about as bad as CHP instructors in not knowing the law.

My advice to anyone who will listen is forget about Open Carry and pack heat concealed.

But it's still a Mostly Free Country, so each person can make his own choice.

sfg
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Offline FarmerRick

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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 04:44:34 PM »
rhollman

You've got it right here (from your narrative, above):

   "unlawful to... transport concealable firearm in a motor vehicle except... (5) unloaded.. inside a closed container... inside a luggage compartment... not readily accessible, or (9) person having obtained and display a city ID card showing completion of firearm training sec 20-207, or (10) person carrying a valid concealed carry permit."

The City ID card [Handgun Identification Card] is your license/permit to carry your handgun openly and loaded in your automobile within Omaha city limits.

Which will then result in every Soccer Mom in a Minivan calling 911 and reporting "Man With Gun".    And we can all hope that the LEO who pulls in behind with the gumballs going also is conversant with the law.    LEOs are about as bad as CHP instructors in not knowing the law.

My advice to anyone who will listen is forget about Open Carry and pack heat concealed.

But it's still a Mostly Free Country, so each person can make his own choice.

sfg


 ???

My pistol is "out in the open" 90% of the time I'm driving anywhere in Omaha. 
I'm certainly not waving it around or anything, but it is either stuck in a cupholder, laying on the seat, or tucked between the seat and the console. Easily seen should someone care to look.

Then again, it's usually a LCP in a pocket holster, and not a Gold D' Eagle wit da beemz...  ;)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 04:46:56 PM by FarmerRick »
Why would you expect me to fight for your rights when you won't fight for them?

Offline SemperFiGuy

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 07:53:05 PM »
Quote
My pistol is "out in the open" 90% of the time....
....
Welcome to Omaha.....    Pick your exemption from the following menu  [Maybe (10), below]:

Sec. 20-206. Carrying weapons.

(a)    As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.

(b)    In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:

(1)   Persons lawfully entitled to possess a firearm while upon the premises where he or she regularly resides or is regularly employed.

(2)   Peace officers.

(3)   Members of the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, or the Reserve Officer Training Corps when on duty or training.

(4)   Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.

(5)   Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.

(6)   Persons in or upon a shooting range or the regular business premises of a federally and city licensed firearms dealer.

(7)   Persons engaged in a generally recognized course of instruction in the use of firearms, such as hunter safety instructions or instruction for the purpose of obtaining an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207

(8)   Persons who have verified to the city that they are entitled to a waiver of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207(k).

(9)   Persons who have obtained and display an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207

(10)   Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.

(Ord. No. 33113, § 7, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, § 1, 6-17-97; Ord. No. 37432, § 2, 7-18-06)


sfg
PS - Got any more of that Bargain Lead Shot???

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Offline 00BUCK

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 08:56:20 PM »
Gold D' Eagle wit da beemz
I laughed so hard I almost swallowed my tongue.

Offline FarmerRick

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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 09:55:11 PM »
SFG: I was referring to this portion of your response:

Quote
Quote from: SemperFiGuy on Yesterday at 10:32:13 PM

 ~snip~

Which will then result in every Soccer Mom in a Minivan calling 911 and reporting "Man With Gun".    And we can all hope that the LEO who pulls in behind with the gumballs going also is conversant with the law.    LEOs are about as bad as CHP instructors in not knowing the law.

My advice to anyone who will listen is forget about Open Carry and pack heat concealed.



 ;D
Why would you expect me to fight for your rights when you won't fight for them?

Offline SemperFiGuy

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Omaha, NE
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 06:21:22 AM »
FarmerRick:

OK by me.   So Far, So Good.


I'm thinkin' carry style is a highly individual choice, and we are all Highly Individual Folks.

The thing about Open Carry is that--although it is entirely legal--it can still get the Open Carrier a face full of gravel until it's all resolved.

Of course, any carry has certain risks.
  There was a case of an ex-military officer (West Pointer) who carried concealed in a mall in Texas.   Gun was briefly exposed.   Store employee freaked.   Declared Mall Emergency.   Cops came.   Shot CHP guy.   Dead.

It goes On and On.

sfg
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Offline ragedefined

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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2013, 05:05:38 PM »
open carry in your vehicle. i do it every day.
you legally need to have the "omaha open carry permit" to have your gun in open sight in your vehicle. outside omaha city limits you can legally have your gun in the open in your car without a permit.

as for the email from the old prosecutor, his intentions with said email was this: if you have a concealed carry permit and you are concealing a handgun, it accidentally becomes visible and someone reports it, the prosecutor would not prosecute you for the accidental flash. It did NOT mean you could open carry freely in omaha city limits if you have a ccw permit.

Offline jthhapkido

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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2013, 08:00:04 PM »
It did NOT mean you could open carry freely in omaha city limits if you have a ccw permit.


It does now, however. 

Omaha Municiple Code, Chapter 20, Article 7, Section 20-206, item 10.

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10945

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Offline ragedefined

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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2013, 08:14:55 PM »
Item ten just says that you can carry a concealable weapon if you have the Nebraska conceal carry permit.
Doesn't say anything about having a ccw gives the green light to open carry in omaha city limits.

Offline ragedefined

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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2013, 08:23:54 PM »
Now re reading that again. All section b 1-10 is talking about is transportation in a vehicle. Not on your person.

Offline Husker_Fan

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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 05:47:43 AM »
I believe the Omaha City Attorney's office has said that their interpretation of the state preemption law is that open carry is allowed for a CHP holder.

And by the way, welcome ragedefined. Glad you're here.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 05:53:34 AM by Husker_Fan »

Offline jthhapkido

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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2013, 05:54:33 AM »
Now re reading that again. All section b 1-10 is talking about is transportation in a vehicle. Not on your person.

20-206 lists (in part b):  In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:

As such, parts 1-10 below part b discuss how a person may "go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind" (for example, open carry) "OR knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle."

As part 9 is the training program for the Omaha open carry permit, and 10 says "valid concealed carry permit," then having a valid concealed carry permit allows a person to open carry in Omaha, in addition to carrying a firearm (open or concealed) in a motor vehicle, as per part b.

And yes, the Omaha City Attorney's office has said that open carry is allowed for a CHP holder.

In the Omaha codes, section 20-192 talks about concealed carry.  20-206 talks about having a concealable (but not concealed) firearm on you in any way--it is about "Carrying Weapons" and does not specify concealed.
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Offline ragedefined

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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 12:37:26 PM »
I guess it comes down to this. Your view of what it means is a misinterpretation of the meaning. You can call omaha police and they will tell you that this is talking about: to have a concealable firearm on your person or in your vehicle being illegal unless you have a conceal carry permit.(unless properly stored, ammo separated yawdy yawda) That is all. I personally would not go by just my own interpretation, I would also call lawyers and the omaha police department to see if I was reading something correctly in the municipal code.

Just got off the phone again with firearms division opd.



Offline SemperFiGuy

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« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »
For Anyone Who May be Interested.........................

Nebraska also has a dedicated Open Carry Forum, located here:

http://www.neopencarry.org

sfg
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Offline jthhapkido

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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »
I guess it comes down to this. Your view of what it means is a misinterpretation of the meaning. You can call omaha police and they will tell you that this is talking about: to have a concealable firearm on your person or in your vehicle being illegal unless you have a conceal carry permit.(unless properly stored, ammo separated yawdy yawda) That is all. I personally would not go by just my own interpretation, I would also call lawyers and the omaha police department to see if I was reading something correctly in the municipal code.

Just got off the phone again with firearms division opd.


So---even though the open carry class/certification program is in the exact same list as the one listing the CCW permit, said list being the one that allows carrying a concealable firearm, the one that allows open carry in Omaha---your contention is that the CCW permit is not one that allows an exception, even though it is on the list that specifically says:  "this section shall not apply to the following persons".

And, as SFG posted, the OpenCarry forum, in it's section about laws, specifically discusses the code I quoted, saying:  "An identification card is required for those who wish to open carry in the city of Omaha. This card is issued to those who have completed an approved firearm training program (8-10 hours in classroom, 2 hours on shooting range). A notable exeption [sic] to this is that one may open carry if he possesses a valid CHP.    - Omaha Municipal Code (Sec. 20-206,207) "

http://www.neopencarry.org/laws.php#omaha

Again---I'm curious as to how you are reading this differently.  Section 20-206 is the part that regulates open carry (ANY carry of a concealable firearm in Omaha, other than actual concealed carry, which is covered by a different code, 20-192).  It lists exceptions to the ban on carrying a firearm.  One of those exceptions is their open carry permit.  From the exact same list, one of the other exceptions is the NE CCW permit.

I'm curious as to why you think that the same list applies to two different things?  Is there some other part of the Omaha code that discusses open carry?   Can you show us this code, because I'd like to read it?

I note that I wouldn't contact OPD with a legal question---simply because the people answering the phones can't give legal advice, and often simply get things wrong.  That isn't necessarily their fault, though it certainly is annoying to not be able to be a correct legal answer from a police officer. 

I'd contact the people who actually prosecute, and the people who wrote the laws.  And when you do, you'll find that the NE CCW Permit is sufficient for open carry in Omaha.  (Which, it states clearly in the Omaha code.)
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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »

 

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