Want to participate in a study group?

[wallace11bravo]

This is just a feeler for an idea I am playing around with. I am trying to see if there is enough interest to make something like this happen. This is in no way shape or form a guarantee that this will actually happen, or when.

Subject: Effective Reactions for Practical Self Defense
Task: Gather quantifiable info in a semi-scientific manner.
Purpose: Gather some insight and evidence about what "automated response" works best for self defense.
When: January/February 2014, one or two days on a weekend. Date is very flexible, and we could do additional days.

First, I would only be administering and participating. This study group would belong to everyone who participates, and the results would be documented, compiled, and published online for all to see. I will provide the facility, the training aides/materials, and there would be no charge for participation.

Participants: Anyone really, but a high level of proficiency and knowledge on shooting and self defense would be preferred. Initial data would be collected and recorded on the each participant's proficiency with the laser training aides.

(I thought about airsoft here, but that puts in additional logistical strains with liability, cleanup, setup, resetting, with the only real benefit being a minor pain avoidance motivator. Using laser training aides also allows us members to change up scenarios if desired)

Methodology: Using laser training aides in one-on-one/force-on-force scenarios, each member of the study group would have a turn at being the subject, while each member also takes a turn at being the bad guy. Subjects and baddies would be paired up randomly to try to keep the data as neutral as possible. Members not participating in the current drill are expected to help with observing, data collecting, and controlling.

1. Victory - Defeat - Draw (too close to call)
2. Hit on subject (by location and number) - Hit on bad guy (by location and number)
3. Approximate total time of engagement
4. Total "rounds" fired by baddy and by subject
5. Hit percentages
6. Anomalies (including stress induced, i.e. one handed firing)

This data could be further stratified as desired, and video recordings could be reviewed later for additional data gathering.

All drills would be run in the same environment, and the bad guy is always the initiator, to simulate the immediate reaction pattern that most self-defense shooters would likely find themselves in. All bad guys will stay stationary in the open.

All drills would be run at 10, 25 and 40 feet.

Each reaction drill would be tested 8 times, once by each member of the study group as the subject.
1. "Stand and Shoot"
2. "Get off the X"
3. "Shoot and Move (at the same time)"
4. "Move to Cover and Shoot (one step distance to cover)"
5. "Move to Cover and Shoot (three step distance to cover)"

Five different techniques, times 8 runs each, times 3 distances each, equals 120 scenarios. I think with the simplicity of the study and methods used, it is reasonable to expect to get 60 done in an 8 hour period, making me think it will take two days.


So what do you think? Anyone interested? Suggestions for methodology? Different reaction drills to test? This would very much be my first time formally administering something like this, so I am all ears.

[kozball]

Participants:  Anyone really, but a high level of proficiency and knowledge on shooting and self defense would be preferred. Initial data would be collected and recorded on the each participant's proficiency with the laser training aides.

Well, this leaves me out.   

I think this is a great opportunity to put valuable info together on how bad I would do in this.

Consider me as an alternate test dummy when the time comes. 

[JTH]

I'd be interested.  Finding a day people could all do it might be rough, but it certainly sounds interesting.  And if nothing else---it's another way to test yourself.

[whatsit]

I'm in. Like kozball, I'm not sure I qualify for the "high level of proficiency" part, but I like to push myself.

[Lorimor]

I'm interested as well.  I have no problems with being "that guy." 

[JTH]

I'm interested as well.  I have no problems with being "that guy." 

You are just happy that there is no AirSoft in the force-on-force.   

[SemperFiGuy]

AirSoft

For the record, why do they call it AirSoft??

Ain't Air....

Ain't Soft....

SpringSting?

sfg

[bkoenig]

I'm interested, if the date works out.

[CitizenClark]

Count me in, too.

[gsd]

I'm game if I have the day/s off.

[wallace11bravo]

Sounds like some real interest.

So, questions...

Location: Omaha or Lincoln I suppose. Plethora of different options that I'm sure I could work out. What are your votes?

Date(s): Suggestions? What works best for ya'll? My schedule is packed, but fairly flexible through the January/February timeframe.

Methods tested: Suggestions? Does that look good to everybody, or is there something you think is not needed? Something missing that you feel should be included?

Methodology: Comments/Suggestions? I go a bit more in depth in the image below on how I would set it up. What do you think?



Roles:

Recorder: Record a hardcopy of the data, number of hits, in order, by location, and on who. Gets his info from the observers.
Observer 1: Observe the behavior of the opponent, and hits on/near opponent. Raises his hand to declare the opponent incapacitated (signals end of scenario)
Observer 2: Observe the behavior of the subject, and hits on/near subject. Raises his hand to declare the subject incapacitated (signals end of scenario)

In simpler language, if observer 1 raises his hand first, it is a victory. If observer 2 raises his hand first, it is a defeat. If it is too close to call, we review the footage. If it is still too close to call, it is a draw.

We would generally say that a single solid hit on the torso head, or neck is "incapacitated." Two solid hits on abdomen or pelvic area equals incapacitated. Extremity hits and misses would be documented, but equal nothing towards incapacitation. Thoughts?

To keep the playing field level, everyone would just use a SIRT pistol, starting out with the weapon at their side in their dominant hand.

Order of movement:

Sign in
Safety brief
SIRT familiarization
SIRT proficiency documentation (using LASR system, one or two very simple drills under a shot timer)

A. Technique discussion/familiarization/practice
B. Eight iterations at close range
C. Eight iterations at mid range
D. Eight iterations at longer range
(repeat A-D for each technique)


I'm particularly interested in Thomas's thoughts on this, as he has more knowledge and experience in the scientific method/data collection/etc aspects.

[kozball]

May I suggest that you avoid any ENPS match dates, especially if you want JTH to wipe us all out. 

IIRC, 2 matches per month in Jan - Feb.

[JTH]

(I'm not ignoring this, I just don't have time to put good thought into it yet.  Commentary to follow, hopefully tomorrow.)

[gsd]

My days off (currently) consist of Friday and Saturday. Provided my class requirements do not change that should remain the same during that time.

With regards to methodology, I like what I see, not sure how the "stress-induced" option may came to light, but you most likely have some ideas regarding that.

I like the shot placement aspect, especially if you plan on running each individual through several drills continuously. It should be interesting to see the effect of physical exertion on shot placement.

As I said before, If I can swing it, I will help, just keep me posted.