Ammunition & Hand Loading > General Ammunition Discussion

What is the 9mm Luger?

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Ronvandyn:
When I got back into the gun buying phase of my life about 3 years ago I passed up quite a few different 9mm’s.  I had one (Walther P-38, former German Poletzi weapon, should never have sold it) and loved it, but was looking for something different.  I knew I wanted a concealable gun as I had plans to get my permit and none of the weapons I had at the time (not including the .25acp Raven I still own) were  suited from a concealment standpoint.  Sure, I could tuck that .25acp into just about any nook or cranny you can think of, but let’s face it the .25acp is a pretty lousy personal defense round.  Last ditch, just before I start throwing shoes, maybe (I have big feet), but its small and slow and has less penetration than a 22LR.  Beside the rounds are expensive as heck!

I settled on the 40S&W as my round of choice and went looking.  OMG there are a lot of guns out there!  And every person who sells them has an opinion of every single one, and few agree on anything.  40S&W, quite good stopping power, not going to eat my wrist to practice with or my wallet, more rounds in a mag than a .45 yet fewer than a 9mm, a good round given all the choices available and after ignoring most of the opinions I was given. 

I eventually stopped in at a local pawn shop and found the one I wanted.  Small, 40S&W, not real expensive, and as ugly as my grandmothers dog.  Perfect.  I still have it, it’s my primary carry weapon, but I still occasionally mix in the PK-380 I have or the P90DC (drags my pants down, but I like knowing its there), but that .40 is most always within reach. 

IMHO the point is to make a hole.  Large or small, fast or slow, and as many as necessary, but make a hole.  They can all do it (maybe not the .25acp, but it’s a cute little thing), and even if it does not do everything you want it to do at least you went down fighting.  Of course I would prefer that they went down, but we don’t always get what we want. 

OnTheFly:

--- Quote from: Hatchet1961 on December 15, 2008, 11:41:30 PM ---Yeah but its so little and leaves little holes. Just about every US service man wants a .45 ACP.

--- End quote ---

That is not a fair comparison.  The military can not carry hollow point bullets.  Only full metal jackets.  If they could, they would probably find that an expanding 9mm would make nearly the same size hole as a non hollow point.

Fly

sidearm1:
When I want a good laugh at the Gun store commandoes wanting to sell the big 45s and 10mm because all it takes is a hit in the finger to put them down, I simply say what about the 9mm in civilian dress.  I then get the "a 9mm does nothing but make them mad, you need to buy a man's gun".  I then follow this up with:  OK, lets stand 15 yards apart, I will shoot you with my 9 X 19 124 +p.  Then when we get done, I will buy any gun you can go over and pick up for me.  So far no takers.  Remember the 9 X 19 has been putting people down since 1908.   A loud miss never stops anyone.

SeanN:

--- Quote from: sidearm1 on May 09, 2011, 09:54:40 PM ---When I want a good laugh at the Gun store commandoes wanting to sell the big 45s and 10mm because all it takes is a hit in the finger to put them down, I simply say what about the 9mm in civilian dress.  I then get the "a 9mm does nothing but make them mad, you need to buy a man's gun".  I then follow this up with:  OK, lets stand 15 yards apart, I will shoot you with my 9 X 19 124 +p.  Then when we get done, I will buy any gun you can go over and pick up for me.  So far no takers.  Remember the 9 X 19 has been putting people down since 1908.   A loud miss never stops anyone.

--- End quote ---

This is true. A fast miss isn't worth anything, either is a .45ACP hitting someone in the finger. ALL pistol calibers require good shot placement. The only weapons that don't are grenades and other explosives. Even 12 ga shotguns (despite popular belief) WILL MISS if you don't aim them properly and will NOT reliably disable your target if you shoot them in the arm.

You need to rely on physiological incapacitation, NOT psychological. Psychological factors are so widely varied from person to person that it is completely insane to believe that just because you shot someone they'll stop fighting you. You need to make it so they CAN'T fight back, regardless of the effort they put into it, the mental discipline they possess, and/or drugs they're on.

However, I always disagree with the "I wouldn't want to get shot by X" argument. Well, I wouldn't want to get shot by a .22LR. That doesn't mean I'd advocate it for self-defense use. I don't even want to be stabbed with a needle.

People that say that 9mm is completely ineffective are either using the wrong loadings (ball/FMJ ammo for self-defense use is FAIL), haven't seen any ballistic testing results, or are just spreading gun show/gun shop myths.

Rodney Moorhead:
I love the 9mm. 

I once bought some cheap ballistic jelly and shot it with a factory 9mm 124 grain hollow points and then with .45 230 gr hollowpoints.  This was Federal Ammo.

Anyway the wound channels were not all that much different.  They in fact scared the bejeebers out of me.  I don't think a bad guy is going to know the difference if he was hit two times with a 45 or a 9mm.

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