First Form 1 & First SBR

[whatsit]

I'm considering starting a Form 1 to create an SBR built on the AR platform. I'm not sure I understand the process. If someone who has done this could clarify a few things, I would appreciate it:

1) Form 1 requires you write down the overall length and barrel length. I don't have all of the parts as it would be illegal to assemble anything, at this point. How do I measure / guestimate the overall length? Also, I've read that you can put a longer barrel on, but can't go shorter than what you write on your Form 1, is that true?

2) I need to purchase a lower receiver for this project so I can put a serial number on the Form 1, right? I need the lower before I fill out the Form 1, right?

3) What's all this business about using it as a "pistol" until the stamp comes back? Do I have to buy the lower in a special way for it to be considered a pistol? Can you just buy a plain-ol' lower and a pistol buffer tube and call it good?

4) I've seen a thread asking about NFA engraving before, but I can't find it. Anyone have a good shop that can engrave to NFA standards and re-anodize that part of the lower?

Thanks in advance for departing your wisdom.

[jonm]

measure a 16" are, then subtract for desired barrel length. it doest really matter if you go shorter than what on the form 1 as long as you maintain the upper that's on the there. if you sell the upper listed on the form 1 I'd call batfe and update.

yes, you must have a lower before the form 1 is filed

any stripped lower can be assembled as a pistol. but if it was once a rifle, it can never be a pistol.

[CitizenClark]

I'm considering starting a Form 1 to create an SBR built on the AR platform. I'm not sure I understand the process. If someone who has done this could clarify a few things, I would appreciate it:

1) Form 1 requires you write down the overall length and barrel length. I don't have all of the parts as it would be illegal to assemble anything, at this point. How do I measure / guestimate the overall length?

I had it easy with my first SBR, a Kel-Tec PLR-16. With the addition of a Charlie stock it had the same overall length as an SU-16D. For an AR SBR, just do some research on overall lengths with different barrel dimensions.

Also, I've read that you can put a longer barrel on, but can't go shorter than what you write on your Form 1, is that true?

http://blog.princelaw.com/tag/sbr-sbs-changing-barrel-length-barrel-length-short-barreled-rifle-short-barreled-shotgun-modify-atf-batfe-form-1-form-4/

2) I need to purchase a lower receiver for this project so I can put a serial number on the Form 1, right? I need the lower before I fill out the Form 1, right?

Yes, you should acquire the lower first (unless you are building from scratch).

3) What's all this business about using it as a "pistol" until the stamp comes back?

Generally speaking, if you possess a bunch of parts that can only be assembled as an NFA firearm, and you don't yet have approval on a Form 1, the ATF would assert that you are in unlawful possession of an unregistered NFA firearm, based on the concept of "constructive possession."

Some people want to go ahead and assemble as much as they can so they have a working firearm while they wait on the stamp. Some people just want to be able to legally possess the shorter upper half before the stamp arrives.  These folks build up their lower with a pistol buffer and no stock so that they can legally possess and use the short-barreled upper while they wait for the gears to turn at NFA branch.

Do I have to buy the lower in a special way for it to be considered a pistol?

As long as it has never been assembled into a rifle, you should be good to go if you want to build a pistol. If the lower has first been assembled as a rifle, and then you make a pistol from it, you have manufactured a short-barreled weapon made from a rifle, and that is a no-no. ("[A weapon is] a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length")

Can you just buy a plain-ol' lower and a pistol buffer tube and call it good?

You can just buy a plain ole rifle buffer assembly and call it good if you don't plan on possessing or using the short upper half before the stamp arrives.

[bkoenig]

Better do it soon if you live in Lancaster County.  With the upcoming changes to trusts it's going to get a lot harder to acquire NFA items in places where the CLEO refuses to sign off.

[RobertH]

every day you wait to send off the forms, the longer your wait is going to be.

[whatsit]

Thank you all for the information.

I found the engraving thread:
http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,2664.0.html
bkoenig, it looks like you just sent it off to Ident Marking. Is that these folks?: http://identmarking.com/index.php/shop/firearm-marking/ar-m16-marking-2-detail
Can they ship the receiver back to your house or do you have to do an FFL transfer to get it back? (A side note: I've never been real clear on how mailing firearms works [for recall work at the factory, as an example] -- if they can come directly back to you or if you need to use an FFL).

I think I'll just buy the lower, use it on the Form 1 and then store it for a while. I've got another carbine I shoot a bit, so I'm not aching to put this thing together; I just want to get it in the system before all of the crazy NFA changes happen.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[bkoenig]

Yep, I used Ident.  Since they're an FFL I believe they can ship it back to you.  I think that's what they did for me.

[whatsit]

One last thing: engrave before or after the tax stamp comes back? I'm leaning towards after... Thoughts?

[jonm]

before. so if it's messed up, you can use a different lower. if you do it after, you are stuck with it or go through the long process of a refund and reissue.

[whatsit]

before. so if it's messed up, you can use a different lower. if you do it after, you are stuck with it or go through the long process of a refund and reissue.

I see, so you're suggesting engraving before I submit the Form 1, is that right? I guess I hadn't thought of that (the engraving getting screwed up, etc)... good advice, thanks.

My thought was to engrave after in case the Form 1 got rejected for some reason, but I guess you can appeal that...

[jonm]

if the form 1 gets rejected, you just have a lower with your name on it.

I'd also put a lpk on it as well. that way you can ensure there aren't any tolerance issues. I had a seekins lower and the rear take down area was to tight to put an upper on it. if I had already gotten the approved form 1 back, I wouldn't have been able to exchange it for one in tolerance.

[bkoenig]

Before.  Even if you engrave it and it's rejected it doesn't hurt anything, you just have an AR with your name engraved on it.

[RobertH]

i used Ident as well.  they were fast too.  i shipped them my stripped lower and sent it back in a week i think.  but then i had to wait another several weeks before i could get my barrel.