General Categories > Shooting Sports
I CHALLENGE YOU.... (Steel Challenge, Oct 20th)
abbafandr:
--- Quote from: jon_schram on September 27, 2013, 10:56:10 PM ---I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven. Last shoot I went to (Sioux City Iowa), everybody came to play the game. Hardly anybody brought what they carry daily...a lot of long slide Glocks and holsters designed for speed. Only 2 or 3 of us actually drew from true concealment, and we got murdered on time. I would have had more fun with the 2 or 3 people that actually came to develop skills, but we were in different relays and never had much time to talk.
How many people usually show up? Any women shoot? My wife would definitely shoot if she wasn't the only woman and didn't feel intimidated.
--- End quote ---
Of course it's a game, just like any other competition.
Concealment holsters, sadly, are not allowed. Neither are thigh or cross draw rigs.
Women do shoot it regularly.
So come on down and have a good time, after all, it's just a game. :D
JTH:
--- Quote from: jon_schram on September 27, 2013, 10:56:10 PM ---I'd be down if its not "gamer" driven. Last shoot I went to (Sioux City Iowa), everybody came to play the game. Hardly anybody brought what they carry daily...a lot of long slide Glocks and holsters designed for speed. Only 2 or 3 of us actually drew from true concealment, and we got murdered on time. I would have had more fun with the 2 or 3 people that actually came to develop skills, but we were in different relays and never had much time to talk.
--- End quote ---
I think---that you must be talking about a different kind of match. As has been mentioned, Steel Challenge doesn't allow you to draw from concealment, so if it was a SC match, someone was really ignoring the rules.
If it was a USPSA match---well, that one isn't about concealment either. There is a division for folks shooting stock guns (and I shot a G17 in that division for a number of years), but the other divisions don't. Which makes sense, because it is a game, and those people are playing the game because they enjoy the sport.
In addition, they too were developing skills--just not the ones you wanted to develop. I'm betting that plenty of the people there indeed tested a number of aspects of their shooting skills. (I'll note that I personally don't find shooting matches to be good places to develop skills, but instead test skills.)
If it was an IDPA match, then it still wouldn't surprise me if people used guns and methods of carry that they wouldn't actually use in real life---because IDPA is also a game with rules and more importantly, with winners and losers. As such, people playing the game want to win, and changes in equipment will make a substantial difference to that. (That's one of the reasons I roll my eyes every time someone says "IDPA is practicing for reality! None of that gamer stuff!" ---as they walk around with a G34 in a range holster on their hip covered by a stiffened IDPA shoot-me-first vest that they never wear outside of a match or practice.)
Truthfully, developing shooting skill is something that won't really happen in matches---that occurs in practice on your own. (IMO) However, using matches to test aspects of your shooting skills (not all aspects by any means---realistic self-defense tactics, for example, don't get tested) does indeed work---and the game makes it fun.
But it certainly isn't meant to be realistic for self-defense practice (no, not IDPA either). I note that I'm not even allowed to participate in IDPA using my preferred method of carry (can't use appendix IWB in IDPA).
So---matches are supposed to test certain aspects of shooting skills, and to be fun. Those aspects may not be what you are interested in, however.
--- Quote ---How many people usually show up? Any women shoot? My wife would definitely shoot if she wasn't the only woman and didn't feel intimidated.
--- End quote ---
Shooter turnout: We've averaged 61.5 shooters per SC match this year, with a high of 79, and a low of 46 (that was in January). So, plenty of people come out and shoot. We still start at 9am, and still get done by 2pm even with 6 stages, though.
We get men, women, and children of all types and skill levels to come out and shoot. Pretty much everyone has a good time. Best level of preparation would be making sure you read the two stickied posts at the top of this forum regarding Match Safety and Introduction to Steel Challenge, and perhaps watching some of the videos of Steel Challenge that are available on YouTube.
Match Safety: http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,7025.0.html
Intro to Steel Challenge: http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,6854.0.html
Various Shooters at a 2009 match:
Right after ENGC bought an official SC steel set:
Some video of the difference between good runs and bad runs from the same person:
Steel Challenge is a good fun time. The people who win tend to be the ones that can go one-shot-for-one-hit on the steel, at speed. It is a great way to test your accuracy and speed under at least a little bit of stress. Can't shoot it from concealment, however.
ETA:
Just looked up Sioux City, and I see there is a club there that holds "Steel Challenge" matches. However, judging from their stage setups and such, they do it a bit differently than we do.
At ENGC, we run 6 of the 8 official SC stages, and we are an official Steel Challenge-affiliated club, so we go strictly by the official SC rules. 5 steel per stage, one the stop plate, 5 strings per stage, etc. So, a little different than the Hawkeye Rifle and Pistol Club. Nothing against how they do it---just making sure people know that we use the official SCSA rule set.
jon_schram:
I was under the impression that steel challenge was a spinoff of idpa...just easier to implement on a small range. Also cheaper and easier to run than a full idpa course. When I looked into it further I see my assumption was way off.
Still sounds like fun and I may give it a try. At least I would know ahead of what I was getting into????
still good training to practice a nice smooth draw, with accurate shooting, and fast follow up.
Didn't mean to step on anybodys toes here, or insult anybodys game. I just thought most steel shoots were geared towards practical/ccw shooting.
wallace11bravo:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on September 27, 2013, 12:11:02 AM ---Get your total score under 100 seconds and you'll probably be in the running for top five in centerfire. :)
--- End quote ---
Ha, I'm just gonna try not to be in the bottom five ;)
Looks like I can make it for this one (finally, I've only been trying to get to a SC match for the past year)
Suppose they won't like my safariland :( Guess I'll be running the bladetech.
JTH:
--- Quote from: jon_schram on September 28, 2013, 11:44:13 AM ---I was under the impression that steel challenge was a spinoff of idpa...just easier to implement on a small range. Also cheaper and easier to run than a full idpa course. When I looked into it further I see my assumption was way off.
Still sounds like fun and I may give it a try. At least I would know ahead of what I was getting into????
still good training to practice a nice smooth draw, with accurate shooting, and fast follow up.
Didn't mean to step on anybodys toes here, or insult anybodys game. I just thought most steel shoots were geared towards practical/ccw shooting.
--- End quote ---
Oh, don't worry, no one got insulted. Maybe a little worried that you were going into it with some expectations that weren't going to work out, though....
As you've found out, Steel Challenge is completely separate from IDPA---really, no relation at all. SC is all about speed and accuracy, that's it. No reloads, no stage planning, no "tactics" of any sort (least of all defensive tactics)---just how fast can you get the gun out, and how fast can you can hits on target.
Very straightforward---and often quite an eye-opener for people.
Here is a link to some stats data I run showing the top times from the 2010 and 2011 SC Nationals.
http://precisionresponse.4t.com/Downloads/SCNatsScores.pdf
To compare to that, here are some of the best stage times from our top centerfire shooters locally. (There is a big difference there between National level and the local scores---and the local times are from the people who WIN locally, not just an average of the local scores. Plus, these are some of the best scores ever locally , not merely one set of scores from a match---and we STILL aren't very close to the average of the top five shooters nationally.)
(I'll note if you want to shoot steel, but in addition have to move, reload, and do it under time pressure, we have a Pro-Am match tomorrow, which is always a good time....)
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