Off-duty LEO's Carrying in Schools?

[Mudinyeri]

The actions of an off-duty FBI agent — taking a gun to a Papillion elementary school — have ignited discussion that could make its way to the Nebraska Legislature.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20131104/NEWS/131109502/1685#may-off-duty-officers-carry-guns-in-schools

Looks like we may have another legislative battle on our hands.  If Ashford and Chambers can prevent off-duty LEO's from carrying in schools "because of the potential dangers", we're highly unlikely to ever make any headway on legislative changes that would allow CCW permit holders to carry in schools.

[RLMoeller]

We should act on this.

I believe we have the public on our side.

[GreyGeek]

Looking at the score card ... 
Number of kids killed at school by a person authorized to carry a weapon (on  or off duty) = 0
Number of kids killed at unprotected schools by armed psychos = too many.

Possible controls:
1)  Restrict or punish those not responsible for the school shootings
2)  Notice the overwhelming trend and punish those who are responsible, and modify laws to allow for early identification and restrictions.

[Mudinyeri]

Looking at the score card ... 
Number of kids killed at school by a person authorized to carry a weapon (on  or off duty) = 0
Number of kids killed at unprotected schools by armed psychos = too many.

Possible controls:
1)  Restrict or punish those not responsible for the school shootings
2)  Notice the overwhelming trend and punish those who are responsible, and modify laws to allow for early identification and restrictions.

3) Train educators and administrators on prevention, identification and reaction; drill regularly

[AWick]

Saying he's worried  "because of the potential dangers" because an LEO is on or off the clock is a scare tactic. There is ZERO difference of "on/off duty" except that an on duty officer has a radio and body armor strapped to him/her...

[bullit]

Come on everybody knows a LEO loses their superpowers when off duty...... Let's see how many County or city prosecutors step up and file charges.....it begs the question is an "off-duty" LEO obligated to make an arrest, or applying to the school situation stop an Active shooter?....That's the argument I'd make when "The Cobra" or Sir Ashford of Omaha attempt to make a stink about it.
One last thought....how on earth did this Hoplophobe parent come to the conclusion that the FBI Agent was "off-duty"?

[BT1288]

Parents like this one, don't want guns carried by LEO's when off duty?
The first people they call when there's trouble is the guys with the guns. (LEO's)

[AAllen]

OK there are two different topics here: one should off duty law enforcement be allowed to carry at schools, and two can they already.  These are two entirely separate subjects so bear with me a moment.

1.) I have no problem with off duty police, School Security or CCW permit holders etc. carrying in a school.  In fact personally I believe that any rules baring such are unconstitutional (though I will admit the courts as they are today would disagree with me).  That said lets move to point two.

2.) Under current Nebraska and Federal Law an off duty Law enforcement Officer can only carry on school grounds if they are acting as security hired by the school for an event.  The NFOA supported a bill (introduced by Senator Burke Harr) a couple of years ago that made that possible.

Federal Law requires that in order for a person to be able to carry a firearm on School grounds they must be licensed and permitted by the state to do so, and that capability must specifically be given.  In Nebraska Law their are only two (and they are separated and given specific capabilities) groups given this ability.  Law Enforcement acting in pursuit of their duties, and off duty law enforcement that has been hired by the school district to provide security for events.

So I now have a question, why hasn't that FBI Agent been arrested yet? 

[NENick]

Could it be that the law isn't enforced consistently and equally for everyone?

[AAllen]

Could it be that the law isn't enforced consistently and equally for everyone?

Nick, I believe that you have hit the nail on the head.

[475okh]

I believe there was a book entitled Animal Farm which stated that All Pigs are created equal some are just more equal than others.  The chances that this FBI agent charged is slim and none.  If  average Joe, with a carry permit,  was in the same place with his pistol all hell would break loose.

[GreyGeek]

I believe there was a book entitled Animal Farm which stated that All Pigs are created equal some are just more equal than others.  The chances that this FBI agent charged is slim and none.  If  average Joe, with a carry permit,  was in the same place with his pistol all hell would break loose.

Here is the 1954 animated movie version of George Orwell's book, "The Animal Farm".

[WallPhone]

I've witnessed Omaha PD LEO carrying during meet and greets at my daughter's elementary school. Doubt it was official...no uniform, shirt wasn't official issue, but was either a union shirt or some kind of LEOKIA memorial or training that inferred he was OPD. He was also with son and spouse.

Was not aware it wasn't sanctioned until now.

[AAllen]

I've witnessed Omaha PD LEO carrying during meet and greets at my daughter's elementary school. Doubt it was official...no uniform, shirt wasn't official issue, but was either a union shirt or some kind of LEOKIA memorial or training that inferred he was OPD. He was also with son and spouse.

Was not aware it wasn't sanctioned until now.

If he was off duty and working as Security for the school event he is alright, but if he is there as a father on his own time he was breaking the law.

[Greybeard]

Omaha does not use armed security in their schools. I worked there 1992 - 1996 as security, unarmed. I talk to a current security officer at my grandchildrens Omaha school, and they are still unarmed. And BTW, they are identified as Security on their clothing.

[OnTheFly]

Omaha does not use armed security in their schools. I worked there 1992 - 1996 as security, unarmed. I talk to a current security officer at my grandchildrens Omaha school, and they are still unarmed. And BTW, they are identified as Security on their clothing.

They might as well label their clothing with FBS (First to Be Shot) or HBT (Human Bullet Trap) because they can't provide any real security when it comes to a crazy person with a gun.  This was the knee jerk response in Lincoln after that POS that came into a grade school and molested a boy. 

Similar to what I saw after 911.  One major airport would make you pop the trunk on the vehicle so they could look for bad things (weapons, bombs, etc.).  So they would look into the trunk, see several large, heavy suitcases, boxes and various other containers and then waive you through.  Oh yeah...because anything that was a bomb or had a weapon in it would be properly labeled. 

This made the average ignorant individual feel good that they were protected.  SHEESH!

Fly

[Mudinyeri]

Omaha does not use armed security in their schools. I worked there 1992 - 1996 as security, unarmed. I talk to a current security officer at my grandchildrens Omaha school, and they are still unarmed. And BTW, they are identified as Security on their clothing.

I could have sworn I saw armed security at Omaha North and Central when we went there for open houses last year.

[AAllen]

I could have sworn I saw armed security at Omaha North and Central when we went there for open houses last year.

Having knowledge of Omaha North and what they do, my daughter is a student there;  They do bring in off duty Police to act a security for some events, and a open house might be a time that they would to make it appear they are providing the best security possible.  The off duty officers doing this may be wearing their uniform (OPD) or they may be in one of OPS's Security uniforms, I have even seen one wearing what looked like one of the OPS uniforms that had OPD markings and his badge on it.  There every day campus security is not armed, but there is normally an armed resource officer in the school. 

I believe that the OPS campus security folks have a list of officers (many of who are resource officers for their day job) that they can and do hire to provide security on a part time as needed basis.

[depserv]

Those who stand in the way of armed guards in schools should be held responsible for their crimes if, God forbid, there ever is a mass murder in one of our schools.  (Those who think they are not crimes might want to read the 2nd Amendment, as well as the preamble to our state Constitution, and reconsider their opinion.)  These anti-gun bigots are in effect acting as accessories to these murders, and the innocent blood is on their hands.  Patriots should make this known to them. 

CHP holders have an excellent record for safety and responsible gun use.  Many are retired and have time to volunteer.  Special training could easily be made available, with so many certified instructors in the state.  There is no valid reason for our schools to be defenseless.  Arguments to the contrary are based in lies.