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Body cam video of an LEO involved shooting

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sjwsti:

--- Quote from: RedDot on January 17, 2014, 06:29:03 PM ---Not sure how this relates to a home invasion shooting, unless we're gonna discuss his grouping on an 8 foot shot with elevated pulse...
--- End quote ---

I figured this video would be a good way to put yourself in someone else`s shoes. You can make the scenario anything you like. This is what you see, what are you going to do? You may have already made up your mind how you will react in a similar situation but you cant assume everyone on this forum has.

Guess I was thinking more along the line of the decision making process, physical effects of stress and preparation. 

But if you guys would rather discuss LE response to hit and run/suicidal parties we can sure go that route.

BTW this is nothing new to Omaha and has happened on the north side. I was on duty and treated Robert Ventry (the first link) after his first contact with OPD. We also treated his parents who he violently assaulted earlier in the evening. He didnt survive his second contact. I dont recall any protests.

http://masscops.com/threads/neb-police-fatally-shoot-man-with-knife-lunging-at-woman.24508/
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121129/NEWS/711299894
http://www.jrn.com/kmtv/news/Man-in-Surgery-After-Officer-Involved-Shooting-in-Council-Bluffs-218315841.html

- Shawn

sjwsti:

--- Quote from: FarmerRick on January 17, 2014, 06:47:50 PM ---Not sure why it's NOT ok for the guy to cut himself, with nobody else in the dwelling... but it IS ok for the cop to go in and kill the guy because he might cut himself.
Can someone please explain that to me?

--- End quote ---

Suicide is against the law. So is intentionally hurting yourself. Crazy but true. Say the Police stayed outside and he did kill himself. Then the family sues saying they should have done something to stop him. No win situation for LE.

As far as EMS goes this is implied consent. The suicidal party isnt thinking rationally. It is implied that if they were thinking rationally they would want help. That gives me the legal right to use whatever means I have to in order to prevent you from hurting yourself or anyone else and get you to a hospital. Most of the time this just takes calming the person down and taking them voluntarily. Sometimes it means EPC by LE and sometimes it turns into a fight. The guy in the video made his choice. He wasnt shot because he was cutting himself or "might" cut himself. He was shot when he came out of the kitchen and advanced on the Officer.

- Shawn 

RedDot:

--- Quote from: sjwsti on January 17, 2014, 07:12:00 PM ---I figured this video would be a good way to put yourself in someone else`s shoes. You can make the scenario anything you like. This is what you see, what are you going to do? Guess I was thinking more along the line of the decision making process, physical effects of stress and preparation. 



--- End quote ---

That's a pretty loose and hairy scenario to pose to folks.  I understand the stress and decision making side of it, but it was presented as from the LEO's point of view via the body cam and you never really stated whose "shoes" folks were supposed to slip into. 

If you're advocating wearing the LEO's shoes in the situation you could be advocating actions that will land the majority of the posters (who are not LEOs) in trouble.  I pointed out things I saw, but my main concern was the way he escalated the situation.  It could have been handled better and I'd bet anything the officer knows that now and wishes it had.  That personal assessment will either make him a better officer or a more dangerous one.

If you meant to pretend the shooter IS the home owner confronted by a knife wielding, unresponsive intruder in YOUR kitchen you should say so. ;) That's a different scenario.

If we're just making up the variables in a scenario, then maybe I'm the guy in the kitchen.  I took my hearing aids out because my ol' lady is *****ing at me for forgetting to tape American Idol last night.  I'm gonna cut up some celery to dip in my Skippy peanut butter before Wheel of Fortune starts and when I come around the corner someone with a gun is barking at me and my wife isn't to be seen.  Guy ventilates me, I'm dead, wife sues department and gets million dollar settlement and moves in with some young guy named Raul in a condo on South Padre Island.  Now how do you train for that scenario? ;D

sjwsti:

--- Quote from: RedDot on January 17, 2014, 08:03:38 PM --- If you meant to pretend the shooter IS the home owner confronted by a knife wielding, unresponsive intruder in YOUR kitchen you should say so. ;) That's a different scenario.

--- End quote ---

Thats where I was going. I should have done a better job of explaining that. And for Gods sake make sure you set the DVR to record American Idol. :D

- Shawn

Tim McBride:

--- Quote from: FarmerRick on January 17, 2014, 06:47:50 PM ---Not sure why it's NOT ok for the guy to cut himself, with nobody else in the dwelling... but it IS ok for the cop to go in and kill the guy because he might cut himself.

Can someone please explain that to me?

--- End quote ---

Let's look at the facts we can ascertain from the video

A LEO announced his presence multiple times before entering beyond the threshold, asked the individual to put the knife down, when the individual advanced he warned that he would shoot him if he continued to advance, the individual continued to advance. We should note the officer in question was even retreating giving space to the individual prior to shooting him.

Reviewing these facts we can say the individual was not killed because he might cut himself, but because he continue to advance upon a person while holding a knife, even after he was told he'd be shot if he continued to advance.

Any reasonable person when confronted by someone who continues to advance upon them with a knife would fear for their life.

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