Question re: Remington 700 accuracy.

[depserv]

I bought a new Remington 700 Tactical rifle awhile back and at 100 yards from a bench the shots were all over a 9" pie plate.  So I tried a different scope (Zeiss 4 - 12 power), just in case the one I had been using might have been defective, and it didn't do any better.  So I called Remington and they told me I needed to use lighter bullets.  So I did and it didn't do any good.  So I sent the rifle back to Remington, and they sent me a brand new one.  Same thing happened.  So I called them again and they said I need to use heavier bullets, 165 or 168 grain.  So I did, and I got roughly a 3" group from a bench at 100 yards, and didn't try any more.

I'm not the best shot in the world, but there's no way I can be shooting that badly.  I have the rifle on a sled, which is very stable.  A half blind 80 year old woman could get <1" groups with the setup I have. 

So my question is, does anyone have any idea of what the problem might be?  I'll probably end up sending this one back, but what are the odds against getting two defective rifles in a row?

[bkoenig]

My 700 shoots sub-moa, but when I got it there was a big burr on the crown.  I cleaned it up myself and it shoots ok, but Remington QC is pretty much nonexistent.

My first guess would be a bad scope or loose mounts, but it sounds like you covered that already.  Does the barrel rub on the stock when you have it on a bipod or bags?  The factory Hogue stock on he Tactical models is junk.  I never bothered even trying the one on mine, I just put on a Bell & Carlson.

[Mudinyeri]

Bone stock Remington 700 SPS with 20X SWFA scope on Badger base and rings with Harris bi-pod at 100 yards:



This is my best group to date, but 9" groups at 100 yards is crazy.  What base and rings are you using for you scope?  Did you bed the scope base?  Have you tried shooting at greater distances to see if the bullet stabilizes past 100 yards?

[landon410]

as has been pointed out those hogue stocks are accuracy killers
I had a similar issue with my 338mx where all the sudden my groups opened up really wide and it was my rear scope mount started to come loose.

[bkoenig]

Even with the junky Hogue stock it should be better than that, though.  How does the crown look?

Unless something is loose somewhere I bet you just got two lemons in a row.

[Mudinyeri]

as has been pointed out those hogue stocks are accuracy killers

My group (above) was shot with the Hogue stock off the Harris bi-pod with a bag under the butt of the stock.  Although all three rounds aren't in the same *exact* hole, I don't know if I could do much better.

[kozball]

Relayed this story to bkoenig a few weeks back.

I have a Savage 10 FCPK in 308 with a Falcon Menace 4-14 MIL/MIL on top of Burris rings and Warne mount.

Went with a friend to a pit out by Valley. Nice place. Has a road that goes straight  into a natural berm. Turns left before the berm. Anyway, were able to laser 3 paper targets at 50yds, 100yds and 150yds. Also put a 12" steel at 150.

Over the past few months have been messing with the scope to the point that I wanted to recheck my zero. Put 4 down the pipe at 50 yds, made some adjustments to get things tightened up, but could not get tighter than 3" at 50yds with the second mag of 4. Hmmm............

3rd mag at the 100yd gave the same results, 3" group all around the eye.

4th mag at 150yds got the group down to about 1.5" and had 2 touching. My friend was laughing at me as to I could be sooooo bad at 50 and good at 150.

5th mag at the steel. Had some previous splats from friends 223. Friend told me to aim for a splat low left. Hit, bigger splat, did it again, bigger splat.             WTF ??

Later that evening I remembered that I, sometime read an article about bullet stability with long range precision shooters and all the stuff they do when reloading. Stuff like COL and how close the bullet is to the edge of the rifleing, and bullet shape. The thought is that some bullets do not stabalize very well after being shot from various rifles. Mine seemed to have that same problem and get tighter after 100yds plus.

I was shooting Federal A308D which is 150gr FMJBT with velocity of 2820 fps according to Federal Ballistics.

Also removed my scope from the base and moved it 1 slot farther forward. So I get to do this again.   

[00BUCK]

If it is bad at 50 and better at 150 it can only be an issue with the shooter, not the weapon. The bipod could also be causing issues, they are not all that stable - ditch the bipod and shoot from a lead sled or bags.

[pfinn]

Most accuracy problems I've seen (from myself and others) have ended up being more a factor of the shooter than the rifle. I am sure that isn't the case here, but you should have another competent shooter fire a few groups just to see. After that try the following:

1. Clean, Lube, Inspect, and Tighten EVERYTHING. Like bkoenig said, pay special attention to the crown. If you can see burn patterns from the rifling, make sure they are symmetrical at all points where the rifling meets the crown.

2. Change Ammo. Try a variety of manufacturers, bullet types, and bullet weights. I'd shoot at least 5 round groups with each.

3. Shoot over a Chronograph. This is more for gas guns than bolt, but if the chrono is all over the place you may have a gas leak or seal problem somewhere.

4. Change Optics and shoot for groups. Even the cheapest optics should be better than 9" at 100 yards, but borrow another scope and see if that's the problem.

If everything there checks out, it is likely out of the average shooters' ability to fix. Time to go back to manufacturer or to a gunsmith.

[depserv]

Did you bed the scope base?

What do you mean by bedding the scope base?  I put it on and tightened the screws, but that's about it.

[bkoenig]

A lot of guys put bedding material like Devcon, JB Weld, etc under the bases to ensure a solid fit.  I don't think that would cause this much of an accuracy problem, though.  I bedded my base because Remington's receivers are usually not level between the front and rear bases.  I used a one piece base and with the front tightened down I had probably a 1/32" gap at the rear before bedding it.

[depserv]

I have a 2 piece base, which seems to fit well.  I have all the screws tight; I don't want to crank them down so much though that I risk stripping the threads.  Is a thread-locking compound like Loctite a good idea?

[bkoenig]

I have always used loctite on all of my mounting screws.

[Mudinyeri]

I have a 2 piece base, which seems to fit well.  I have all the screws tight; I don't want to crank them down so much though that I risk stripping the threads.  Is a thread-locking compound like Loctite a good idea?

A two-piece base can help alleviate some of the problems associated with an un-bedded base.  Here's an article that might help: http://planprepare.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/bedding-a-rifle-scope/

If you use Loctite on your screws, make sure you use the blue Loctite and not the red.

[wallace11bravo]

Could be loose rings, could be out of spec lands, could be a broken track, could be your eye to axis of sight alignment, could be gremlins.

.... Rather than play the internet guessing game, if you would like, I could take a look at your setup sometime. No charge, but I will try to talk you into signing up for SAPPRC 2014 . Let me know. My contact info is on my site in my sig line.

[newfalguy101]

Just my opinion mind you, but, I am not as much of a tinkerer as many other seem to be, and frankly, a NEW rifle of pretty much any flavor that wont do 1.5 inches or less out of the box, is defective and needs to be returned to the factory as many times as it takes for them to fix it. 

If I read your original post correctly, they have already replaced the gun once, which suggests to me there is a known problem with their more current production guns AND they know it!!

[MHicks]

I may have missed it but I have a few questions;

What is the caliber of your rifle?

Length and twist rate of the barrel?

Type of ammo and projectile weight?

[Mudinyeri]

Not to be a cross-poster, but I think the picture below is relevant to this topic.  (I've also posted the same pic elsewhere on the forum.)

I took my 700 SPS out to stretch its legs a little bit yesterday.  It's chambered in .308 and I'm shooting 178 grain Hornady A-Max bullets.  Everything on the rifle is bone stock as mentioned above, including the "crappy" Hogue stock.

As you look at the photo below, keep in mind that I am not a long range shooter.  Prior to yesterday, I had never taken a shot at a target more than 300 meters away.  The target below was a man-size target placed at 600 yards on the ENGC range.  The ten holes on the target were ten of the first sixteen rounds I ever fired at a distance greater than 300 meters.  It took me six rounds, with a spotter, to get on target.  I called my own wind and my spotter called the hits/misses for me through a spotting scope.  My first hit was in the elbow area of the target (farthest right hole).  I walked the rounds in from the right to the center by gradually adjusting for a variable wind.  You'll notice that I was able to "keyhole" two shots toward the right side of the target.

Again, I'm no great long range shooter.  I'm an admitted newbie when it comes to this, but my 700 SPS is easily as accurate as I am if not more so.

[bkoenig]

Yeah, if a brand new 700 can't hold at least 1.5 MOA I'd say it's defective.  I'm no fan of the Hogue stock and I think it hurts accuracy, but not to that extent.  Gotta be something loose, bad barrel, etc.  You probably got a couple that were made on a Friday afternoon.

[Mudinyeri]

Gotta be something loose, bad barrel, etc.  You probably got a couple that were made on a Friday afternoon.

... or on a Monday morning.