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How do you tell an "experienced" shooter....

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JTH:
...that their safety discipline sucks?

Lomshek wrote this over at pistol-forum.com:

"The funny thing is when I've tried to correct "experienced" (read done it for years not done it right for years) shooters on proper hard trigger finger index I get ignored or told the finger was off the trigger (1/4" forward of the trigger face). The only shooters I've had luck convincing are novices who know they don't know anything.

Experienced shooters with bad habits are the most dangerous creatures out there because they know everything and it's worked fine all this time. Those are also the types most likely to decide AIWB is for them because they're "expert" shooters."

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11928-Analyzing-the-Front-Sight-ND-reports&p=214425&viewfull=1#post214425

He later says:
"There are tons of folks who have been shooting for years or decades and violated every safety rule in the book but because they haven't shot themselves or someone else yet (by the grace of God) there will be no convincing (and even after they shoot themselves if the chief of police video is any indicator). Some folks just are determined to prove they are infallible by ignoring all the warnings."

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11928-Analyzing-the-Front-Sight-ND-reports&p=214458&viewfull=1#post214458


I find that I completely agree.  I see this in competitions (USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge, GSSF), in classes (both classes I've taught and classes I've attended) and on the range (where the guy in the next bay over is "teaching" someone how to shoot, when their own safety discipline is an dangerously incompetent or non-existent.

This is like the people who tout their experience in surviving armed encounters---just because you survived doesn't mean you did it right.  It is entirely possible that either 1) you just got lucky, 2) the other people with you saved your butt, or 3) your opponent/attacker was a complete and utter idiot.

"…they know everything and it's worked fine all this time…" --- having not shot yourself due to luck isn't the same as having adequate safety discipline.

So---how DO you help an "experienced shooter" who isn't safe, to become safe in their gun handling?  In competitions it is easy---they break the safety rule, they get DQed.  This doesn't make them safe, but it does mean that won't shoot anyone/themselves that day.   But then you see someone on the range showing someone else how to shoot, and what they are teaching is straight-out dangerous, from a safety discipline standpoint.

What do you do?  How do you approach them to make a difference? Remember, this is an "experienced shooter."

on the fritz:
If you were good enough, you could get a pic with your phone or camera and show them that they were not as safe as they thought they were. 

Otherwise, constantly saying "finger off the trigger" would be annoying to both parties but they might at least leave; leaving you safe(er). 

Good question, but I don't think there is a good answer (unfortunately). 

NENick:
Politely interrupt, and let the trainee know that you've been observing the most dangerous training you've ever seen. State why, and then let them know that it's so dangerous that you're leaving the area in fear for your safety.

bullit:
I confront them in a respectful manner and could care less if it seems offensive.  That being said I try not to throw stones at glass houses....case in point I shot an idpa match last weekend and came very close to breaking the 180 rule.....I ...me...experienced shooter, instructor, idpa safety officer.   The original poster was kind enough to inform of my almost dq moment.  I took it  humbly and beat myself up mentally all the way home...in short they (me) will either appreciate the correction (me again) or they will be a jerk and you will not want to hang around them in the future. The best teachers are always the best students first.

SemperFiGuy:

--- Quote ---I took it  humbly and beat myself up mentally all the way home...
--- End quote ---
   

Been right there and done that.   And Likewise Felt Stupid All the Way Home.

These kinda folks are not the Problem Folks.

It's the Other Kind of Folks.   The Know-It-All Shooters.

Sometimes they are Instructors: "Ah bin teechin' this here class for twenny-fahve yeers and Ah've seen it all.   Especially awl the dumb thangs You are gonna do on the range taday............"   

[Might as well mention Husband/Wife combos at CHP Range Qualification......   Trying to get the wife through the process and Hubby keeps jumping in.]

OK--back to Know-It-All "Experienced" Shooters.

sfg 

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