Bar/gun range?

[Chris C]

Add ENGC to the list of allowing alcohol on the premise. 

[mercaptan]

 I think Gary is against it.

[ILoveCats]

Alcohol is available everywhere. Quick shops, grocery stores and drug stores. Places CCW holders and folks on the way to the range to shoot may stop at on any given day. They arrive at the range and there is a bar in the same facility. Suddenly the presence of alcohol robs them of all caution and judgment. They drink and shoot, carry concealed with disastrous results. Really? Responsible gun owners and shooters of all kinds are trusted everyday to be sober and safe when involved with firearms. If just the availability of intoxicants is the standard for revoking the right to keep and bear arms then we should all be disarmed. We have to be careful about how we view the regulation of our rights based on what someone might do or how the most careless or ignorant among us might act.     

That's a good post. There's a curious cultural issue here too. Having moved to Nebraska it's interesting being in one of those parts of the world where many people still have the opinion that a person is either a teetotaler or a drunkard and there's no in-between. Or that if a person is drinking, he is drunk... Again no middle ground. Or spending $80 on drink means a pickup bed full of Busch Lite Draft to be consumed on Monday morning before work rather than one bottle of Aberlour A'bunadh that you'll nurse evenings by the fireside through the winter months.

In one overseas job one of my junior employees had a full bar in his cubicle on the work floor and it was pretty much normal. In Germany our movie theater had a nice bar in the lobby, but admittedly the attitude was different--you could get a $20 cocktail but not a plastic cup of bland corn-based beer which is probably what the Lincoln theater will serve once that battle is over. But I don't recall drunk driving, etc being as big of an issue there, because they were Germans and Germans are generally fanatical about following rules.

I'd sort of like the US to go in the direction of thinking about alcohol more maturely and not operating on the assumption that everyone is an out-of-control idiot incapable of discretion and self control.

[SemperFiGuy]

The Amateur Trapshooting Association directly addresses this issue in its rules in this manner:

==========================
Rule XII.B.2.a:
It is the responsibility and the required duty of Shoot Management to immediately remove and disqualify any contestant at any time during an ATA sanctioned tournament:

a. who is under the obvious influence of alcohol or drugs before starting or during any event, sub-event, shoot-off or practice, or who consumes any alcoholic beverage or drugs during participation in any event, sub event or between events or sub events held on the same day including shoot-offs and practice.
==========================

"Drugs" are further defined as either illegal drugs or legal drugs which impair physical and/or mental function.

sfg

[Tacticoolio]

I bet lots of people would shun any gun range, with a alcohol license.  I know I would not set foot in one.

I am now in full support of gun ranges serving alcohol!

Until the government can regulate our decisions more effectively, perhaps by use of brain implants and metropolitan-centralized nervous systems, the decision to use alcohol before participating in a dangerous task is always within possibility.  Most bars are not within walking distance of its patrons' homes.

More seriously, I really do think that providing a social space for gun enthusiasts to gather HELPS us reach our goals.  If we can't trust someone to drink only after shooting, then could we really trust them with either a firearm or alcohol before that?

Side story... I enjoyed a frosty cold one while sitting on my tailgate after a recent classifier match.  There was something... satisfying... about enjoying a drink while watching fellow shooters finish their course of fire.  (There were no casualties)

[bkoenig]

That's a good post. There's a curious cultural issue here too. Having moved to Nebraska it's interesting being in one of those parts of the world where many people still have the opinion that a person is either a teetotaler or a drunkard and there's no in-between. Or that if a person is drinking, he is drunk... Again no middle ground. Or spending $80 on drink means a pickup bed full of Busch Lite Draft to be consumed on Monday morning before work rather than one bottle of Aberlour A'bunadh that you'll nurse evenings by the fireside through the winter months.

In one overseas job one of my junior employees had a full bar in his cubicle on the work floor and it was pretty much normal. In Germany our movie theater had a nice bar in the lobby, but admittedly the attitude was different--you could get a $20 cocktail but not a plastic cup of bland corn-based beer which is probably what the Lincoln theater will serve once that battle is over. But I don't recall drunk driving, etc being as big of an issue there, because they were Germans and Germans are generally fanatical about following rules.

I'd sort of like the US to go in the direction of thinking about alcohol more maturely and not operating on the assumption that everyone is an out-of-control idiot incapable of discretion and self control.

When I was in high school (man, that was a long time ago) we had an exchange student from Germany.  She said she would often go out for a beer after school with her friends back home.  The difference between Germany and the U.S. was those 18 year old kids were being responsible about it and not getting blasted every night...probably because they were being treated as adults, not as kids who had to sneak around to taste the forbidden fruit.  Without the cultural stigma attached to it alcohol was no big deal, just something to be used responsibly.

And as I sit here typing this I'm drinking a beer at my desk at work. 

[Jesse T]

I had no idea so many ranges allowed alcohol.  And it does make sense to me, to trust people to police themselves and be smart about things.  For me I could not care less if the gun range has shots after every magazine!  I just think the business liability is a huge thing when allowing this, let alone the potential negative press!  Everyone knows alcohol and firearms are a bad match if used irresponsibly.  But when someone does use them irresponsibly, the media, leftists, all the people that read the story, they won't blame the PERSON who acted wrongly, they will blame the business establishment that created those conditions.  The actor never gets blamed! Same goes for shootings (the gun gets blamed), Fat people (soft drinks, desk jobs, enabling family members get blamed), and so on and so on.

I'm not saying its right but we do live in a world where we unfortunately (due to lawyers and a litigious society mostly) have to "protect people from themselves".  And I hate to see a good gun range go out of business because some idiot got wasted and shot something/one he wasn't supposed to.

[DenmanShooter]

Just got a new riding lawn mower and used it for the first time today.

If you are mowing and want to back up, the blades disengage.

According to the manual, to mow in reverse, STOP, look around and behind you, hold your fingers under the blade engage button, press the reverse pedal.

So I am mowing in reverse one handed because some idiot jackass somewhere ran over something or someone mowing backwards and some lawyer saw big bucks because you shouldn't be able to do that.

Why do we have to build things for the lowest common denominator?  If you are an adult, you are responsible for your own actions.  If you want to have a beer or something after shooting, why not? 

The whole alcohol is sinful and evil thing is what started the erosion of our 2nd amendment rights in the first place.

It brought prohibition which when it ended left a lot of federal agents with nothing to do.  Which resulted in two guys being hassled over a pile of sugar and a sawed off shotgun.  It has been downhill ever since.

[Mntnman]

Just got a new riding lawn mower and used it for the first time today.

If you are mowing and want to back up, the blades disengage.

According to the manual, to mow in reverse, STOP, look around and behind you, hold your fingers under the blade engage button, press the reverse pedal.

So I am mowing in reverse one handed because some idiot jackass somewhere ran over something or someone mowing backwards and some lawyer saw big bucks because you shouldn't be able to do that.

Why do we have to build things for the lowest common denominator?  If you are an adult, you are responsible for your own actions.  If you want to have a beer or something after shooting, why not? 

The whole alcohol is sinful and evil thing is what started the erosion of our 2nd amendment rights in the first place.

It brought prohibition which when it ended left a lot of federal agents with nothing to do.  Which resulted in two guys being hassled over a pile of sugar and a sawed off shotgun.  It has been downhill ever since.

Usually one wire disconnected will end this stupid feature. It was the first thing I did to my mower after I bought it.

[Gary]

I think Gary is against it.

Yesterday I was against it.  Today, I downed a fifth of vodka, 15 Colorado bulldogs, and an 18 pack of bush light.  Today, it seems like a great idea!

[Tacticoolio]

Yesterday I was against it.  Today, I downed a fifth of vodka, 15 Colorado bulldogs, and an 18 pack of bush light.  Today, it seems like a great idea!

I feel like you're not being entirely earnest or consistent in your statements, Gary. Can you clarify your position?

[depserv]

I think they should also sell tobacco products, and change their name to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, or ATF.  The slogan could be everything a man needs or wants in one convenient location.  Then down the road they could expand the name and inventory to this: Bimbos, Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, or BATFE.  They'd get a lot of business, we could all have a really good time there, and their name would get a lot of free advertising.  Maybe Eats would be better than Explosives, since alcohol would be consumed there.

[bkoenig]

I think they should also sell tobacco products, and change their name to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, or ATF.  The slogan could be everything a man needs or wants in one convenient location.  Then down the road they could expand the name and inventory to this: Bimbos, Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, or BATFE.  They'd get a lot of business, we could all have a really good time there, and their name would get a lot of free advertising.  Maybe Eats would be better than Explosives, since alcohol would be consumed there.

One of the moderators on The High Road used to have a signature line that went something to the effect of "When the ATF finally kicks my door down I'm going to say 'Hi guys!  I've been a big fan of all your products for years!'".