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Author Topic: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?  (Read 6710 times)

Offline Dan W

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2009, 11:38:33 AM »
A warning to those that comment on this topic... The poll thread has been locked. This thread has been fine, but I will not allow controversial topics to degrade into verbal attacks.

KEEP IT CIVIL.

 or you may lose your posting privileges.
Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Rich B

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2009, 12:55:48 PM »
Part of the problem is that as a society matures, it tends to creates overlapping laws and regulations that crowds the average citizen into the gray areas of potentially becoming a criminal. Leaders are inclined to make and pass legislation to modify our Rights (to own and use firearms) for the benefit of all. This progressive limitation of individual rights is why I would lean toward developing a system that would enable felons to regain their productive rights back. Including the Right to Bear Arms.  All of course within reason.   Thankfully our Forefathers wrote the Constitution to protect our basic rights. That is if we continue to exercise our rights.

Good response, DJ.  One point you made that I am hesitant about supporting is a "system" of restoring rights.  I take a pessimistic view in this regard and feel the .gov is more likely to make the process onerous in some way or another.  It might be complicated enough to require a lawyer, incredibly expensive, or be open to arbitrary and capricious behavior by the decision makers.
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Offline Roper

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2009, 06:18:13 PM »
uh, Dan - I don't get your preaching/warning on this one????
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Ronald Reagan

Offline Roper

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2009, 06:24:30 PM »
Dan - disregard my last post, I saw the comments posted with the poll; I understand where you are coming from.
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Ronald Reagan

Offline rugermanx

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 10:17:22 AM »
Thank you, Dan.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. Benjamin Franklin

Offline rugermanx

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 11:45:22 PM »
I do like the thought of forgiveness. And in some cases there are no issues with returning a felons rights (voting and 2A amoung them) but honestly there are too many that come out and start right back down the path that put them there in the first place if not doing worse.

There are plenty of stories of felons coming out and restarting right where they were and alot seem to end in the "they are not taking me back there alive." Like the shooting of a cop in omaha by a man who had several felony weapons counts. I understand there are felons that are not dangerous. But the "system" of restoring rights seems to negate any good that would come out of it. Seems to me it would be biased at best. Corrupt at worst. Returning them all is not a good option. And the whole thing about the "terror watch list" well that's a whole nother rant for a whole nother day. Since Our fearless Homeland Security office has decided to publish a report on "right wing extremists" that encompasses most of my personal views. Does that mean that Vets (both of my grandfathers) are on that list as well? And does that mean that since I have publicly spoken of my view on guns, abortion, and several other topics mean that I am joining them? At least I guess I would be in good company.

I have heard (not here that I know of) some people say we need to just include the wording for this into the punishments defined by law. Say, adding "at the completion of punishment all rights are restored and the record noted but no further punishment shall be imposed." Now I like this in a way it would give the people that are not dangerous, or were being young, and dumb a chance to go straight and right the wrong and then move on with life. However I do see that there is a problem with this system as well. I can see a County Prosecutor that is Anti gun going to a higher charge specifically to take the 2A rights from someone. And this is the quandry we find ourselves in. There is no clear path for this and it creates more laws and more government to enforce/interpret. So I am honestly going to say I don't know how to go about returning the rights, However if someone smarter than me has an idea, I would like to hear about it.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. Benjamin Franklin

Offline FarmerRick

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2009, 02:55:17 PM »
Thought this might be of interest to those in this discussion...

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1670142.html


Felon wins the right to own a gun
Narrow ruling causes big stir




RALEIGH -- A state law barring felons from owning firearms unfairly prevented a Garner man from owning guns, the N.C. Supreme Court ruled Friday, thrusting the court into the national debate over gun ownership.

The opinion applied only to Barney Britt, who was convicted of a drug crime in 1979, and it didn't have an immediate effect on the thousands of other felons in the state. Criminal defense lawyers who practice in federal courts said they don't know what effect, if any, the opinion will have on federal rules, which prevent felons from buying and owning weapons except when a state has restored that right.

The ruling authored by Justice Edward Thomas Brady held that Britt should be able to own guns and that the state unfairly took away his right to own a firearm with a 2004 law that barred felons from owning firearms. Britt was convicted in 1979 of selling Quaalude pills, but he didn't have any further tangles with the law.

Though the opinion focused just on Britt's case, both sides of the gun control issue saw the ruling as significant because the state's highest court found that Britt had a right to bear arms that trumped the state's ability to restrict him from owning any weapons.

Advocates spent Monday poring over the 5-2 decision in Britt v. State of North Carolina. The decision was seen as a victory for those who view government restrictions as too strict, while those in favor of tighter gun control described it as an alarming blow.

"This has implications beyond just North Carolina," said Robert Levy of the Cato Institute, a Washington-based Libertarian think tank that opposes gun control. "North Carolina has now decided that some felonies are not so serious to result in deprivations of the right to defend oneself."

Roxane Kolar, director of North Carolinians against Gun Violence, said the decision was troubling.

"I've never heard of this before, of a felon having an inalienable right to own a weapon," she said. "It's putting a lot of our state gun laws at risk."

The decision could spark a rush to local courthouses as felons try to have their rights to own and store firearms in their homes restored. Those with the best chance would likely be those with cases similar to Britt's; people convicted of nonviolent crimes who had their right to own a gun restored and then taken away with a 2004 law, said Jeanette Doran, a senior staff attorney with the N.C. Institute for Constitutional Law.

Legal e-mail message boards lit up over the weekend, with lawyers swapping tales of clients convicted of felony littering charges then barred from hunting deer for the rest of their lives.

The state legislature may address the issue with a bill introduced for the 2009-2010 session by Rep. Phil Haire, a Democrat from Western North Carolina, that would give limited hunting privileges to nonviolent felons.

Ready to hunt again

Britt said he's excited about hunting this fall and relieved that his four-year legal battle is over.

"It's not a privilege; it's a right," Britt said about gun ownership. "It's a constitutional right."

The office of N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper, who defended the state law in the case, declined to comment on the ruling.

A passionate hunter who never had any subsequent arrests, Britt had his right to own guns restored from 1987 until 2004, when the new law went into effect.

Brady wrote that the law was too broad in including nonviolent felons like Britt, who had otherwise been law-abiding and had owned guns for 17 years after he successfully petitioned in 1987 to have his civil rights restored, including owning a gun.

"He is not among the class of citizens who pose a threat to public peace and safety," Brady wrote.

Troubled by the ruling

In a dissenting opinion, Justice Patricia Timmons-Goodson said she was alarmed that her fellow justices ignored state law by giving Britt an exemption. She said the ruling made North Carolina the first jurisdiction to uphold a convicted felon's right to own firearms over a state's power to regulate gun ownership.

"Today's decision opens the floodgates wide before an inevitable wave of individual challenges to not only the Felony Firearms Act, but our statutory provisions prohibiting firearm possession by incompetents and the mentally insane," Timmons-Goodson wrote.

Her fears were shared by those seeking tighter gun-control laws.

Kolar of North Carolinians against Gun Violence expressed concern that judges would be the ones to decide whether felons could own guns, something she says gives too much discretion to the courts.

Jim Woodall, the district attorney for Orange and Chatham counties, said he found the opinion worrisome and hoped it wouldn't be applied broadly to others.

"They're carving out a one-person exemption," he said.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 02:58:23 PM by FarmerRick »
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline JimP

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2009, 03:04:44 PM »
Lautenberg's law is seemingly (gag!) well-intentioned............

For good intentions and their consequences, contact the Infernal Transportation Department, Office of Paving Materials.......
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 07:13:29 AM by JimP »
The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.  III.

Offline Rich B

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2009, 06:56:10 PM »
Awesome story, Rick.

For all of the talk in our society about a prison system that's about rehabilitation and religious institutions that preach forgiveness, people seem hell-bent on denying rights to people.


JimP - you are quite correct about good intentions!
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Offline DanClrk51

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2009, 08:15:42 PM »
Wow FarmerRick. This is definitely a victory in my opinion, too bad the ruling does not apply broadly to others. The NC legislature should reword their law to allow non-violent felons to get their rights back once out of prison. He is right, it's not a priviledge, its a right. Other than when a person is in prison, rights cannot be taken away. I would like to see people's rights restored.

Offline GunFun

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2009, 12:42:03 AM »
If it's someone that just did something stupid when they were young, and it wasn't a violent crime, I see no problem with restoring their right to bear arms.

The gun control fanatics need to wake up and realize that gun control is an idiotic idea in the first place.

Criminals don't care about law - the only people that are hurt by gun control are law-abiding citizens. They are not only hurt, but MURDERED by criminals - because no one else is carrying a gun.

Gun control opens the door for mass murders, because it keeps law-abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves and others. It's a simple truth.

Offline GunFun

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2009, 12:45:44 AM »
I'm sure many, many people have said the same thing - but feel free to quote me on this:

Quote
Gun control opens the door for mass murders, because it keeps law-abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves and others. It's a simple truth.

Offline GunFun

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2009, 12:48:51 AM »
Ben Franklin would have agreed with me. :)

Offline rugermanx

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2009, 10:08:11 AM »
Well considering the amount of legally licensed CCW permit holders that weren't allowed to carry at VT. I would have to say that's pretty accurate. But when we legislate because of "feelings and emotions" as they do every single time one of these events happens (van Mauer, VT, Columbine, ETC.) we will never have a law that is logical since logic seems to escape the emotional.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. Benjamin Franklin

Offline DJPeter

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2009, 11:33:50 AM »

Quote
Gun control opens the door for mass murders, because it keeps law-abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves and others. It's a simple truth.
[/quote]

I will have to agree with your quote and points. Well put GunFun!
"A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country".
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Offline DanClrk51

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Re: Should felons have their 2A rights restored after release from prison?
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2009, 02:22:56 AM »
I agree with you GunFun.