Trust or not?????

[redequalsdead]

Planning on getting a SBR and a Can in the near future and was just wondering which way to go???
Any help for this noob would be greatly appreciated. Also if you think a trust is the way to go could you recommend a good lawyer. I just want to do this right.

Thank You in advance,
 

Mark

[NE Bull]

Mark, FYI: We will have some of our experts discussing this very subject at a breakout session at our annual meeting on the 24th.  Just one of many good reasons to attend.

[Chris Z]

http://www.dickclarklaw.com/

[David Hineline]

Choosing the right dealer is more important than trust or not question.

Have you talked to your CLEO about signing the forms, when pulled over by the local PoPo for possession of a silencer, it never hurts for the officer to see his bosses name on the form.   If you don't know the secret handshake to get the CLEO signature or if you feel the need to share your purchase with family and friends then Trust or Corporation is a way to go.  The BATFE does not like trusts, there is no background check, when the new rules go into effect, everyone in the trust gets a background check.  The CLEO will be out of the approval list.   http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/in-the-news/2012/4/batfe-us-doj-plan-to-remove-cleo-signature-requirement-for-nfa-firearms-transfers.aspx

[on the fritz]

Sorry for the thread necromance but,...I have been looking for and not finding the info I want. 

Differences between trust and no trust.  If I go no trust, then nobody else but me can use the suppressor or SBR? 

Any other major differences besides money?  Thanks.

[bkoenig]

If you have a trust any of the people named in the trust can have physical possession of the NFA item.  Other people can use it if you are present.

If you don't have a trust only you can can physical possession.

[on the fritz]

..... but other may still use it in my presence, correct?

[whatsit]

..... but other may still use it in my presence, correct?

Yes, that is true.

Additional benefits of trusts:
no LEO sign-off (for now -- they're considering changing this)
if your significant other is a member of the trust, it's no big deal for them to have access to your gun safe
you can e-file for your items (so far, it has proven much faster to get your stamp by e-filing)
you can add members to the trust later (think children or a future spouse) so they can legally posses the NFA items.

[on the fritz]

OK.  Cool. 

So a trust costs more but saves the hassle of a CLEO sign-off.

What happens to my suppressor or SBR, etc. if/when I die?

[whatsit]

OK.  Cool. 

So a trust costs more but saves the hassle of a CLEO sign-off.

What happens to my suppressor or SBR, etc. if/when I die?

A good trust will include instructions about what to do with your NFA items. However, I believe even without a trust, an item can be transferred with a form 5 (someone check that for me) upon your death. I know some guys just fill out a form 5 (again, I think that's what it's called) and keep it in their safe with their items, so their surviving relatives can fill it out with very little effort.

[skydve76]

Get a trust, get it NOW, eform NOW.  By June who knows!

[on the fritz]

Sadly, I can't even afford the tax stamp let alone the boom quieter.  I was just collecting info for the future; maybe another year or two. 

[skydve76]

In that case your question is premature.  In june we dont know what well happen therefore no one can give you advice at this point unless you were gong to do it before June.

[on the fritz]

Understood. 

Was the (not my) president trying to stop the NFA stuff with an executive order?  Is that the headline I read? 

[skydve76]

They are trying to close the "trust loophole".  so what this means you will have to get CLEO signoff instead of using a trust.  Also, eforms is currently for trust only so in theory eforms will no longer be useful for individuals.

So lots of weirdness there  no one really knows what is going to happen, if anything.  Maybe they will change eforms to allow the individual method.  Who knows.

[CitizenClark]

A good trust will include instructions about what to do with your NFA items.

In fact, describing who gets the trust property is sort of necessary to having a valid trust at all.

A trust is a relationship as to property in which the legal ownership of a property is divided from the beneficial ownership of that property. The trustee acts like an owner as far as the rest of the world is concerned, but his legal ownership of the property as trustee is subject to the beneficial interest held by the beneficiaries. Defining that beneficial interest is a necessary part of creating a trust—it is really the purpose of the trust.

Generally speaking, non-charitable trusts are designed to dissolve at some point, and this means ultimately distributing the trust property to beneficiaries and consolidating the legal and beneficial ownership of the trust property. For most gun trusts, the creator of the trust (the "grantor" or "settlor") is also a trustee, and is a life beneficiary (someone who enjoys the use of the trust property for his lifetime), but the remaindermen (beneficiaries who receive whatever remains when the trust wraps up) actually get the property free and clear of trust. People usually choose their descendants for this role, but sometimes they choose a close friend, a nephew, etc.

However, I believe even without a trust, an item can be transferred with a form 5 (someone check that for me) upon your death. I know some guys just fill out a form 5 (again, I think that's what it's called) and keep it in their safe with their items, so their surviving relatives can fill it out with very little effort.

Correct, the involuntary transfer of an NFA firearm from your estate would go on a Form 5 and would not be subject to a transfer tax. Different NFA Branch examiners differ on how to treat a distribution from a trust: some will allow this to go tax-free on a Form 5, and others say this sort of transfer can only be done on a Form 4, tax-paid.

This is one aspect for which using a trust is less advantageous than applying to make or transfer the firearm as an individual.

[Mntnman]

If I personally own NFA items and want to start a trust, will there be a transfer fee to put them in the trust?

[FarmerRick]

If I personally own NFA items and want to start a trust, will there be a transfer fee to put them in the trust?

$200 each(along with the nearly year-long wait)just like any other transfer of a NFA item.

[Mntnman]

$200 each(along with the nearly year-long wait)just like any other transfer of a NFA item.

Thanks, bummer.