General Categories > Carry Issues

boycott banner outside of antiGun establishments?

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jFader:

--- Quote from: Husker_Fan on June 04, 2014, 09:55:54 PM ---They haven't banned guns at Chipotle. They have just indicated that they prefer people not carry there.

Another thing is that you have no second amendment right to carry there.

--- End quote ---

Now I'm confused.....Where does the 2nd amendment right to carry stop/extend to? I'm guessing it depends how liberal the federal court judges in your region are?  Do property rights trump the bill of rights?

Husker_Fan:
It's always been true that only the government can infringe your rights. An employer can fire you if you bring a gun on their property. A business owner can ask you to leave if you do so. If you refuse to leave private property that you have no right to be on when asked to leave, you are a trespasser.

That doesn't make it right to ban guns in businesses. I don't like it and I try to avoid such businesses if at all possible. But they are not infringing my rights.

JTH:

--- Quote from: Husker_Fan on June 04, 2014, 10:22:26 PM ---It's always been true that only the government can infringe your rights. An employer can fire you if you bring a gun on their property. A business owner can ask you to leave if you do so. If you refuse to leave private property that you have no right to be on when asked to leave, you are a trespasser.

That doesn't make it right to ban guns in businesses. I don't like it and I try to avoid such businesses if at all possible. But they are not infringing my rights.

--- End quote ---

Yep.  If I have a business, and I don't want to allow anyone in wearing pink, I can do that---if someone comes in, I can ask them to leave.  It is my private business, after all.  Similarly, if I suddenly turn incredibly stupid and ban guns in my business, that is a completely legal thing to do, since it is my business.

But that doesn't make it GOOD business. 

When we speak to businesses about guns not being allowed in their stores, we don't want to phrase it in terms of "rights"---because in THEIR store, it isn't a rights issue.  It IS, however, a business issue, and we need to let them know that it will impact their income if they bar law-abiding citizens from the means to defend themselves in their stores.

The problem in Nebraska, of course, is that the gun signs banning carry actually DO have the force of law, instead of simply being a business decision for that particular storefront.  (And changing that is one of our goals in the NFOA, if I recall correctly.  As well it should be.) 

A business can tell you to leave if they want you to leave, and that is their right, as it is their private business. 

We just need to make sure they know that if they DO ban self-defense tools in their place of business, it is going to hurt their business.

Cdog:
This is an interesting topic, and one that can (and does) easily fall into the "us" vs. "them" category, something which only serves to increase anger on both sides of the issue. While I agree that we should be letting businesses know that they lose income by posting "no weapons" on their business, a totally confrontational approach will ultimately be self-defeating. It is also the same tactic being used by anti-gun groups.

As far as the open/concealed carry issue goes, I am not sure that pushing the open carry issue is strategically beneficial for firearms owners at this time. Open carry, especially when approached in a confrontational manner, lowers the proponent of firearms ownership to the level of those misinformed anti-gun citizens (yes, citizens - because I refuse to lower myself to their level by demonizing them the way they demonize us). There are too many people who have been fed misinformation about how responsible firearm owners can be expected to behave in public for such a tactic to work. What is called for here is not confrontation, but education, and this should be the first strategy deployed in these types of situations. Only when the business community and the public recognizes the responsibility with which the majority of legal firearms owners behave can we expect to have reasonable reactions from people who encounter open carry situations.

From what I have seen, many of these policies are knee-jerk reactions by companies  who are misinformed about how concealed carry works. I think that, instead of being confrontational (especially in an angry manner), an inclusive approach would benefit gun rights more. How about approaching the local managers and assistant managers with an offer of free concealed-carry and/or gun safety classes? They could then have a better idea of how and why we chose to exercise our rights to self-defense, and be informed about the type of training that concealed carry permit holders have in regard to when and how to use our firearms legally and safely. Of course, it also allows them to shoot in a safe and instructive environment, which in my experience does more for people's understanding of firearms than anything else.

I realize that the reality is that many of these businesses are national chains, and I believe that a national organization - say the GOA or NRA - should make these same offers to the upper administrative levels of the national chains, but as a local organization we can instill confidence in local business owners that we are responsible and trained. Additionally, we should look at other people - politicians, representatives, etc. - who we can invite to participate in such classes. Such things will only serve to inform against, rather than rant against, anti-gun rhetoric.

Is there a form letter that can be sent to some of these businesses expressing concern over carry policies? If not, why not? A reasoned, respectful, and considered letter to these businesses expressing support for our right to carry and, more importantly, their right to freely express their rights however they see fit, might be a good start to a good-will, informational campaign.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents - or $1.50, the way I went on...

Mudinyeri:
Here's a thought.  What if, instead of banners and standing outside of a place of business, we had matching T-shirts that said, "Violent criminals, the patrons of this business have been disarmed for your convenience"?  :)

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