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Switching from a full-size to a pocket gun...
wallace11bravo:
Thanks for the entertainment, Thomas.
JTH:
--- Quote from: GreyGeek on September 16, 2014, 10:09:30 PM ---In every location (except while driving or riding in a car) I keep my hands in my pockets with the fingers of my right hand curled around the grip. My thumbs are outside the pocket. I am literally holding the gun, but it is not obvious or visible.
--- End quote ---
Oh. So that "1-2 second draw" assumes you are holding the gun already. You are able to actually do this all the time?
I simply can't assume I'll be able to keep my hands on my gun all the time---often I have to carry things, hold stuff, open doors, etc. (Like eating food, which I'm a big fan of... :) ) For any particular type of carry (and my lifestyle), I just can't assume that I'll already have my hands on my gun, particularly in a self-defense situation. (Watching a movie, reading a menu, going to the restroom, unlocking my car, carrying groceries or anything I've bought from a store...)
What's the draw time when you don't have your hand on the gun already?
--- Quote --- As the gun comes out of my pocket my right thumb pushes the safety off. I couldn't get any faster using a hip holster from any concealed position. I am not reaching around behind me, inside a jacket, or reaching through a flap of shirt, or trying to pull up, or out, a shirt tail so I can expose the gun and draw it. My 9mm Beretta Nano required a concealing shirt or jacket to maintain stealth.
--- End quote ---
So---you have a pocket holster, with your hands in your pocket, but you also have a shirt or jacket over it? Or are you talking about a different gun/carry situation?
JTH:
--- Quote from: Gary on September 16, 2014, 09:57:21 PM ---The problem I see in most people relying on pocket carry is the tool in their pocket. A sub compact 10mm is a vast exception to most guns that are small calibers of .25, .32 or .380.
--- End quote ---
Sub compact 10mm. For pocket carry. Yeah, okay.
--- Quote --- These guns typically have a half a dozen rounds. These guns are often times sub par as well as sub compact. Low priced guns for your only source of protection is a licence to failure.
--- End quote ---
So, minimum-wage folks shouldn't buy guns?
I'm curious---do you have ANY data, research, or information on how low-priced guns have failed citizens in self-defense situations? Do you have any information at all about how firearms are commonly used in self-defense, how many rounds are often fired, and what the effectiveness of various calibers are like, that you are using as the basis for your opinions?
I'll note that I personally don't carry pocket guns in minimal calibers with low capacity. That's my personal choice, however, and plenty of people have managed to defend themselves with .38 snubbies, .22 Berettas, and other low-capacity small-caliber firearms. And saying that people should carry 10mms as pocket pistols seems....unsupported by actual reality.
--- Quote ---I think any off duty police officer will tell you, it is not about being comfortable, it is about being comforted.
--- End quote ---
I doubt "any off duty police officer" would say that, though a former police officer DID almost originally say that since that is a misquote of Clint Smith.
--- Quote ---Everytime I think about going pocket carry I get two images come to mind. A group of gang members, or a group of LE like Ruby Ridge or Waco or the subject in my avatar. These are all gangs we as socker moms and business folks always have to have in the back of our minds. Do I want to face down credible threats with six rounds in a 2" barrel ? No.
--- End quote ---
You.....plan on facing down a group of LE folks with your concealed carry pocket gun? That is what you think about?
What is your lifestyle like, that this is the primary threat that you are thinking about defending against?
--- Quote ---Guns are for counterbalancing tyranny as much as hold ups in family businesses. Cant counterbalance very much tyranny on a pocket gun.
--- End quote ---
Right, right, because you only get one gun, and if that gun can't be used to defend against gangs, groups of LEs, and tyranny, it just ISN'T ENOUGH.
Seriously, Gary, do you and reality intersect at any point at all?
JTH:
--- Quote from: Gary on September 16, 2014, 09:57:21 PM ---The problem I see in most people relying on pocket carry is the tool in their pocket. A sub compact 10mm is a vast exception to most guns that are small calibers of .25, .32 or .380.
--- End quote ---
Wait a second----Gary, aren't you the guy who carries with an empty chamber, AND puts a Saf-T-Blok in the gun?
While now apparently pocket-carrying a 10mm?
For the sake of my curiosity, what holster do you suggest for a pocket 10mm?
ILoveCats:
--- Quote from: Gary on September 16, 2014, 09:57:21 PM ---...
it is not about being comfortable, it is about being comforted.
...
--- End quote ---
Meh. Just because one guy making a living as an expert in modern times comes up with a catchy phrase doesn't mean I adopt it as gospel, or let it override the sum of my life experiences or my thoughts on risk mitigation.
One of the biggest firearm-related epiphanies I ever had was when I got to spend a few days visiting museums in Dresden and spent an afternoon at the Staatliche Kunstsammlungen Rüstkammer. Probably the best armory collection I've ever seen anywhere in the world. And the one thing I really walked away thinking was how far back firearms go in human history. It's common to think of them as relatively modern inventions (and the American media certainly portrays them as such -- as some new affliction that has just occurred in the last few decades that require urgent political action to "fix".) In reality they've been with us for many, many hundreds of years. Yes, I understand in the earliest days they were only the possessions of the most rich and privileged, but their trickle down to common men over the centuries causally coincided with the eschewing of monarchy and adoption of democracy. Personal firearms raised humanity up out of the muck of history, but no miraculous leaps of evolution have suddenly created 21st-century humans that don't mind being shot in the chest or head with a .38" projectile but will keel over instantly from a .45" one.
If someone wants to carry a Sig Sauer P232 because they feel it to be the most aesthetically beautiful and tactile gun ever made (which it is! ;)), or if it feels comfortable to carry, or if it conceals well with their wardrobe, or if there's simply some other emotional appeal that makes them want to have that gun with them, then they should do so. That .380 (in combination with avoiding neighborhoods where groups of gang members roam, and staying out of religious cults) should go a long way in mitigating risk, just like similar firearms with similar power have done for a long, long time.
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