Author Topic: COPS in Omaha (Read 9643 times)

Mntnman · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2014, 03:42:08 PM »

Gary, I can't believe you have not made the thought progression on this. The police see a man pointing a gun, then said gun is pointed in their direction, making noise and moving, and you are standing there trying to discern what caliber he is using!

bkoenig · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2014, 03:46:42 PM »

Case in point. This is an airsoft pistol - does anyone really think they could tell it's airsoft when it's pointed at you?

bkoenig · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2014, 03:52:00 PM »

Not to mention, if someone points a gun at me and it's realistic enough that I can't tell it's airsoft, I'm certainly not going to wait until I hear the report of it being fired before I decide whether to defend myself. And once the shooting has started I highly doubt if anyone will notice the sound of the criminal's gun over the sound of their own.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2014, 03:52:51 PM »

Gary, why do you even bother carrying a gun? I don't think there is a situation ever where you would use it.

When someone is turning to you with what looks like a very real firearm in their hand you have one second or less to either pull the trigger or die, I'll pull the trigger and live.

You will be standing there trying to determine whether it is real or not or if there a bathroom window you can dive through. Gary, in that situation you will die, so why bother to carry a gun at all?

66bigblock · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2014, 04:10:01 PM »

bkoenig - Of course - incorrect stippling on the grip. Any rookie can spot that...

6bigblock

Chris C · « **Reply #25 on:** August 27, 2014, 04:53:41 PM »

Quote

Quote from: Gunscribe on August 27, 2014, 03:52:51 PM
Gary, why do you even bother carrying a gun? I don't think there is a situation ever where you would use it.

When someone is turning to you with what looks like a very real firearm in their hand you have one second or less to either pull the trigger or die, I'll pull the trigger and live.

You will be standing there trying to determine whether it is real or not or if there a bathroom window you can dive through. Gary, in that situation you will die, so why bother to carry a gun at all?

+1

IMHO his logic is incredibly dangerous not only to himself but those who he teaches.

I also got a laugh hearing and reading the criticism of OPD on social media and from people before some facts were released today at 2:30.

Mudinyeri · « **Reply #26 on:** August 27, 2014, 04:56:05 PM »

Quote from: 66bigblock on August 27, 2014, 04:10:01 PM

bkoenig - Of course - incorrect stippling on the grip. Any rookie can spot that...

6bigblock

Custom stippling.

FarmerRick · « **Reply #27 on:** August 27, 2014, 04:59:12 PM »

greg58 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 27, 2014, 05:16:44 PM »

Rick, would you pass the popcorn please?

Greg58

unfy · « **Reply #29 on:** August 27, 2014, 05:52:12 PM »

The shooting of the bad guy: fine. Whatever.

The spray and pray ? Even hitting (let alone killing) by stander ? Totally unnacceptable.

If a citizen had done this, they'd be in jail, chastised, shunned, and facing huge civil suits.

The officers ****ed up big time, and the city & PD know it.

PS: Hiya!

bullit · « **Reply #30 on:** August 27, 2014, 06:04:27 PM »

Quote from: bkoenig on August 27, 2014, 03:41:50 PM

A blowback operated CO2 airsoft pistol looks exactly like the real thing and has a loud enough report that under the influence of adrenaline it would be very easy to mistake it for a live round being fired.

And I might add GARY it is still launching a "PROJECTILE" .......

bkoenig · « **Reply #31 on:** August 27, 2014, 06:38:58 PM »

Quote from: unfy on August 27, 2014, 05:52:12 PM

The shooting of the bad guy: fine. Whatever.

The spray and pray ? Even hitting (let alone killing) by stander ? Totally unnacceptable.

If a citizen had done this, they'd be in jail, chastised, shunned, and facing huge civil suits.

The officers ****ed up big time, and the city & PD know it.

PS: Hiya!

I'm going to reserve judgement on hitting the crew member until I know the circumstances. It's entirely possible he was in the line of fire. I'll agree it doesn't look good, though.

Where ya been? We have a serious lack of SCIENCE around here.

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #32 on:** August 27, 2014, 07:03:31 PM »

Seeing the stills from the presser today, the guy was certainly acting like he had a real gun in engaging the cops. I don't fault them for shooting him. It's unfortunate that the sound guy was killed and the city will likely face (and settle) a suit by his family.

As for the comments predicting rioting, I think that is asinine. When have there ever been riots over an armed robber being shot in the act? What happened in Ferguson may or may not have been justified, but everything the police did in the immediate aftermath made it look like a cover up was in the works. I read a lot of posts from pro-2A folks about how they would respond to a militarized police presence in their neighborhood, so lets quit making snap judgments that can be viewed as racist.

unfy · « **Reply #33 on:** August 27, 2014, 07:07:38 PM »

rstrstdrstduy;re'ostiedo'e

Damnit. Hit wrong key.

Quote

I'm going to reserve judgement on hitting the crew member until I know the circumstances. It's entirely possible he was in the line of fire. I'll agree it doesn't look good, though.

In the line of fire ? Don't shoot.

http://training.nra.org/nra-gun-safety-rules.aspx

Quote

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

Quote

Where ya been? We have a serious lack of SCIENCE around here.

Rules at new apt complex make reloading a bit dubious so I've not gone about doing so.

Also, being a real apt complex - gotta be more careful about loud power tools and smelly chemicals.

Sooooo... most of my interesting projects are on hold

. I may have to steal a room here at work and turn it into my workshop heheheh.

In the last few months, I've managed to switch keyboard layouts from Qwerty to Colemak. Am digging it

.

In place of !!! SCIENCE !!! I've picked up a cheap Squier Stratocaster and have been learning guitar. Well. *Trying* to learn lol.

As is probably easy to guess, I've already picked up some luthier tools and have done some work on the guitar already. Also picked up a second cheap guitar to do more drastic experimentation on.

Sitting between keyboard and monitor is a perfboard prototyping pcb with some diodes, caps, chokes, etc on it for a 4 output completely isolated and ultra clean 9V guitar pedal power supply I'll be building soon (no ground loops, and stuff to eliminate ripple and AC hum).

RedDot · « **Reply #34 on:** August 27, 2014, 07:30:06 PM »

Quote from: Husker_Fan on August 27, 2014, 07:03:31 PM

Seeing the stills from the presser today, the guy was certainly acting like he had a real gun in engaging the cops. I don't fault them for shooting him. It's unfortunate that the sound guy was killed and the city will likely face (and settle) a suit by his family.

As for the comments predicting rioting, I think that is asinine. When have there ever been riots over an armed robber being shot in the act? What happened in Ferguson may or may not have been justified, but everything the police did in the immediate aftermath made it look like a cover up was in the works. I read a lot of posts from pro-2A folks about how they would respond to a militarized police presence in their neighborhood, so lets quit making snap judgments that can be viewed as racist.

Omaha and COPS had a contract ruling out any liability for accidental deaths during filming so any lawsuit, while possibly entertaining for the media, would ultimately prove a wasted effort.

Toy gun or not, he presented and brandished it as if it were real. I've always told my son the only thing more dangerous than a real gun is a toy gun in an argument. In the officer's shoes, I'd have shot the guy and not let his stupidity burden me with any guilt.

As for worrying over being viewed as racist for holding or offering an opinion, I stopped being concerned over such labels when Attorney General Holder declared all of us as cowardly and racist to the Euro pressies.

bkoenig · « **Reply #35 on:** August 27, 2014, 07:35:51 PM »

Quote from: unfy on August 27, 2014, 07:07:38 PM

In the line of fire ? Don't shoot.

http://training.nra.org/nra-gun-safety-rules.aspx

Oh, I definitely agree. Bad things can happen under stress when bullets are flying, though. Maybe he was trying to get out of the way and ran in front of the officer while he was shooting. Not saying that's an excuse, but a scenario like that might explain how it happened. We just don't know at this point.

I do think a more likely scenario is just p*** poor shooting, though.

Mntnman · « **Reply #36 on:** August 27, 2014, 08:35:43 PM »

I won't take a position against someone's shooting ability when they believe they are being shot at.

RedDot · « **Reply #37 on:** August 27, 2014, 08:45:12 PM »

Story I am hearing now is this...two doors, one on each end of service counter. First officer enters and moves to open area in front of seating, cameraman follows moving behind officer into seating area, sound man is in glass atrium. Ordered to stop, perp bolts for atrium, aims and fires "gun" at first officer as two additional officers enter 2nd door on opposite end and seeing this engage the perp. Single bullet goes through atrium glass and hits soundman in gap under the arm of his vest as perp tries to go past.

Lots of shooting, lots of movement, cramped space, and absolutely no luck at all for soundman as single bullet hits big artery in armpit.

Got that from a source I consider credible and informed, but take it for what you will. Need to lay blame? Put it on the A-hole who the Kansas Penal system considered rehabilitated after a couple of years incarceration for his numerous felonies.

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #38 on:** August 27, 2014, 08:49:15 PM »

Quote from: Mntnman on August 27, 2014, 08:35:43 PM

I won't take a position against someone's shooting ability when they believe they are being shot at.

Agreed. While 30 rounds from 3 officers sounds like a lot, people don't fall over like in the movies.

bkoenig · « **Reply #39 on:** August 27, 2014, 08:55:54 PM »

Quote from: RedDot on August 27, 2014, 08:45:12 PM

Story I am hearing now is this...two doors, one on each end of service counter. First officer enters and moves to open area in front of seating, cameraman follows moving behind officer into seating area, sound man is in glass atrium. Ordered to stop, perp bolts for atrium, aims and fires "gun" at first officer as two additional officers enter 2nd door on opposite end and seeing this engage the perp. Single bullet goes through atrium glass and hits soundman in gap under the arm of his vest as perp tries to go past.

Lots of shooting, lots of movement, cramped space, and absolutely no luck at all for soundman as single bullet hits big artery in armpit.

Got that from a source I consider credible and informed, but take it for what you will. Need to lay blame? Put it on the A-hole who the Kansas Penal system considered rehabilitated after a couple of years incarceration for his numerous felonies.

If that's how it went down the officer may have had no idea the sound man was behind the glass. If you're in a lighted area and the other side of the glass is dark it can be almost opaque.