General Categories > Carry Issues
Panera Bread bans guns
JTH:
--- Quote from: DR4NRA on September 09, 2014, 02:27:40 PM ---Read this, http://butlerpappas.com/1411.
Many court decisions have upheld that a business has "No Duty to Protect" it's patrons. I also would like to remind you that LE has no duty to protect you from crime either.
--- End quote ---
Since there is no requirement for you to go to that place, you can't really argue that you were forced to be disarmed and helpless.
A business can make that call. Up to them. Their private building, their choice.
Now, I must admit in cases where you HAVE to go there (for example, some state buildings such as the DMV) I think that if they make you go there but don't allow you to defend yourself, then indeed they SHOULD be forced to assume responsibility for your protection. After all, they are forcing you to be comparatively defenseless. Against, for example, our state constitution.
But again, for places like Panera---it is a private building, and you don't have to go there. If you choose to do so, it is no different than if the business says "no shoes, no shirt, no service," yes? You need to match their entrance requirements.
Which is why, I'll note, that I don't go to private businesses that don't allow concealed carry. As for Panera----they are making the smart business choice of keeping a vocal group happy while allowing everyone to do pretty much exactly what they were doing before. Am I thrilled about their choice? No, I'd rather have them vocally support legal gun owners. Am I surprised at their choice? Not at all.
After all, their business is food, not politics, and they want to sell lots of food to everyone.
I note: while I personally am not interested in open carry, and I think most of the attention-seeking open carry folks we've seen in the news lately are idiots, that doesn't change the fact that I'm not thrilled that businesses are now asking people who open carry to please not do so. (I'll note that "attention-seeking open carry folks we've seen in the news lately" is not a category that includes all open-carry folks.)
But private businesses have the right to make their own choices about what they allow in or not. Not going to go out of my way to give them money for their choice---but I certainly respect their right to MAKE that choice.
Kendahl:
--- Quote from: GreyGeek on September 09, 2014, 12:01:27 PM ---They can't have it both ways.
--- End quote ---
Have you ever dealt with someone who tells you what you want to hear but never takes action to implement what he said? I think Panera and others are doing that to the anti-gunners. If Panera hasn't posted signs, nothing has changed. You can still patronize them while armed. They don't plan to confront anyone which would only apply to open carriers. All they are asking for is wiggle room. In my opinion, a strategy of "If you're not for us, you're against us" would be disastrous. It would unnecessarily make enemies of those who have nothing against us and, unless pushed, would just as soon leave us alone.
Mudinyeri:
No, you don't have to go to Panera. However, if you go there, you have a reasonable expectation of safety. Think of slipping on a wet floor in a super market as an example. I don't think there is any case law yet that specifically deals with "protecting" patrons from violence.
With that said, a federal judge just ruled that the Aurora, CO theater where the mass shooting took place "could have reasonably enough foreseen the danger of such an attack to be held liable for it".
Now, I'm no attorney but if you ask your customers to lower their ability to defend themselves it seems "legally foreseeable" that they are at greater risk to violent attacks.
farmerbob:
I'm right there with jthhapkido on the open carry but when does this start to infringe on constitutional rights? If carrying a firearm and the right of self defense are basic civil rights then I believe these are rights we should have everywhere.
I personally can think of several individual rights businesses at one time didn't have to allow in their business. More recently a bakery had to make a cake for a gay wedding.
I guess if you are a gun owner no one cares if you are discriminated against.
AAllen:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on September 09, 2014, 03:08:07 PM ---As for Panera----they are making the smart business choice of keeping a vocal group happy while allowing everyone to do pretty much exactly what they were doing before. Am I thrilled about their choice? No, I'd rather have them vocally support legal gun owners. Am I surprised at their choice? Not at all.
After all, their business is food, not politics, and they want to sell lots of food to everyone.
--- End quote ---
This is the point, good note JTH.
But to add, they have not taken a position that you can not open carry, even an AR-15 if it is legal in that jurisdiction. They simply want us (those supportive of gun rights) to give them some room to be neutral. They do not want to be part of the show, why can't we respect that?
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