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Author Topic: 6.5 Grendel  (Read 5097 times)

Offline bkoenig

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6.5 Grendel
« on: September 25, 2014, 08:00:09 PM »
I recently sold my 308 because I wanted something lighter to carry around deer hunting.  My 308 was very heavy, with an aftermarket stock and a heavy profile barrel.  It shot well, but wasn't really practical for anything other than shooting prone.  I started looking at 6.5 Grendel because it will fit in an AR15 platform, which allows for a light and handy gun.  I wanted something that I could carry all day but still shoot out to longer ranges for fun.  Some guys are reporting they are getting hits out to 1000 yards with the Grendel, but I think 7-800 is more realistic.  The 6.5mm bullet has a very good ballistic coefficient which can translate to good downrange performance, but the case capacity is too small to drive the bullet at high velocities like the 6.5 Creedmoore, .260 Remington, or other 6.5mm long range cartridges.  Still, it has a much better range than .223 and delivers a lot more energy on target.  It's more than adequate for deer sized game.

I ended up building an upper around an 18" lightweight barrel from Underground Tactical.  It came with a matched bolt, which is nice because there are actually 2 different bolt specifications depending on how the barrel was chambered.  Grendel purists will tell you that only the original chamber from Alexander Arms is a Grendel, but there are several different variants out there.  Mine is a "Grendel II" chamber, which has a different throat.  The barrel is very nicely finished, and since it's a lightweight profile it flares out slightly at the end so it can still be threaded 5/8-24 for .308 muzzle devices.  Many Grendel barrels are threaded with a smaller thread size, which then requires a thread adaptor.

I tried to keep it fairly light without spending an arm and a leg, and I went with just a plain jane free float forend.  The one really heavy part is the scope, which I took off my .308.  With the scope and an A2 lower receiver the whole rifle comes to 9.5 lbs.  A good portion of that is the scope, which I mounted on a 20 MOA canted rail to give me a little extra elevation to play with.

So far I'm pretty happy with it.  I only have about 60 rounds through it, but it's showing some decent accuracy potential.  I wasn't expecting it to be a bughole shooter with the lightweight barrel, but I figured if it shot around 1 MOA it would be good enough for what I'm trying to do.  I've only tried one bullet at this point (123gr Nosler Custom Competition), and it seems to like a max load of H322.  That's giving me just under .8 MOA.  Group size kept shrinking as the powder charge went up, but the max load was showing some ejector marks on the brass so I'll probably back it down a couple tenths and see how that shoots.  My chronograph didn't catch any of the max load shots, but a half grain below that was averaging 2,313 FPS so I would guess it's in the neighborhood of 2,350.  According to Hodgdon that load should generate 2,434 out of a 24" barrel. 

A lot of guys recommend IMR8208, but when I tried it I got some serious pressure signs and accuracy was not impressive.  I still need to try some other bullets. The Hornady Amax 123gr is supposed to shoot very well but I haven't found any in stock, and the Lapua Scenar 123gr is supposed to be fantastic but it costs $10-15 more per 100 than anything else.  I also want to try some CFE powder from Hodgdon, since that reportedly gives very good velocities without excess pressure.  I'm going to keep experimenting with different loads and hopefully improve the accuracy, but I'm pleased with what I have.






Offline RobertH

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 08:44:04 PM »
noice!  i like those curtains too.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 08:45:18 PM »
noice!  i like those curtains too.


The curtains are the wife's choice.  I get the furnace room in the basement.  The rest of the house is hers.

Offline abbafandr

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 08:53:59 PM »

The curtains are the wife's choice.  I get the furnace room in the basement.  The rest of the house is hers.
Hey, I resemble that remark! :laugh:

Offline jonm

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 08:56:36 PM »
Looks great.
Out of curiosity, what made you choose this over 6x45? I want to finish another AR and am torn on which to chamber it in.

Offline whatsit

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 10:50:20 PM »
Very nice. Alexander Arms uppers are stupid expensive ($2k+ for some). I'm glad there are alternatives. I would really like to build one for longer range.
Thanks for sharing.

Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 08:13:33 AM »
Looks great.
Out of curiosity, what made you choose this over 6x45? I want to finish another AR and am torn on which to chamber it in.

I looked at the 6x45, but went with the Grendel since it has better energy downrange due to a heavier bullet and more case capacity.  Within 5-600 yards or so I think the 6x45 would be an excellent choice, but I wanted to stretch it out just a little further while still staying with the AR15 platform.  The 6x45 does have several advantages over the 6.5, though.  Since it's a wildcat round you just about have to reload and form your own cases, but all you have to do is neck 5.56 cases up to 6mm.  That alone is a huge deal, since even though you can get factory Grendel brass it's very expensive.  Plus, 6mm bullets should be a little cheaper that 6.5, and it uses less powder, so overall it's going to be quite a bit cheaper to shoot.  And, it uses standard 5.56 mags and bolt.  Assuming you reload I think it just comes down to how far you want to shoot and how much you want to spend.

There's also a wildcat called the 6.5 PCC (not PPC, that's a different animal).  It's a 5.56 necked up to 6.5.  It has most of the advantages of the 6x45, but hits a little harder.  Supposedly it comes close to the performance of the Grendel, but doesn't quite match it.

Interestingly enough, the 6.5 Grendel was developed from a series of benchrest and long range competition cartridges that originated from the .220 Russian, which is itself just a 7.62x39 Russian that's been necked down.  In fact, you can form 6.5 Grendel brass from 7.62x39.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 08:17:50 AM by bkoenig »

Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 08:29:09 AM »
One more pic - if you've never seen a 5.56 and a 6.5 Grendel side by side it's pretty interesting.  The Grendel is on the right - note the shorter, fatter case and much longer bullet.  It actually looks like a benchrest cartridge, which makes sense since that's where it originated.  This increases powder capacity, but you can only fit 25 rounds in the same size of magazine that holds 30 5.56 rounds.  The actual mags are different, too.


Offline DRech

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 07:24:54 PM »
For a  weight comparison.  I have a S&W MP10 in a 308 with Brownells one piece base rings and a Redfield 3X9X 40.  Unloaded without a bi-pod weighs 9lbs and 14 oz.  I don't consider that light by any means

Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 07:44:56 PM »
Considering that my 308 weighed upwards of 15lbs my 9.5 lb rifle seems downright featherweight by comparison.  It's actually pretty well balanced - with the lightweight barrel it balances just forward of the magwell. 

I could lighten it up a lot by going with a different scope.  The one I have weighs 22 ounces.

Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 06:58:08 PM »
OK, now it's a little heavier.   ;D


Offline RobertH

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 07:09:26 PM »
OK, now it's a little heavier.   ;D

but a whole lot quieter (and cooler)
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Offline tstuart34

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 08:04:07 PM »
Is that the BK special?

Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 08:27:41 PM »
Is that the BK special?

Straight outta my garage.

Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

Offline tstuart34

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »
Straight outta my garage.

Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

BK special ll! That's sweet I wish I had the resources to make one. I've done some drawings been trying to figure out how to work a YHM mount into a design. Congrats on the new upper and can

Offline RobertH

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2014, 09:26:37 PM »
BK special ll! That's sweet I wish I had the resources to make one. I've done some drawings been trying to figure out how to work a YHM mount into a design. Congrats on the new upper and can

yea, im jealous too.  have you seen Jesse Jame's silencer designs? they are different but kinda weird.  i have my own ideas....
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2014, 09:27:28 PM »
BK special ll! That's sweet I wish I had the resources to make one. I've done some drawings been trying to figure out how to work a YHM mount into a design. Congrats on the new upper and can


IIRC the YHM mount uses Acme threads.  Those take different tooling than regular 60 degree threads.  I've never tried them before.

Offline tstuart34

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2014, 12:30:17 PM »
Bump to get around firewall :)

Now I can type I can get to parts of the forum at work and not others....

IIRC the YHM mount uses Acme threads.  Those take different tooling than regular 60 degree threads.  I've never tried them before.


From my understanding from Silecertalk is that the YHM mount is some custom pitch Acme thread. People have tried to recreate it but have had difficulties. CF Gunworks has recently started making a QD adapter for the HTA Kestrel. My thoughts are to integrate one of these QD adapters into my design so I can use normal threads or any of the YHM mounts. I have things laid out but I will need to buy the adapter in order to really finish things up. And no real point of doing that until I have a Stamp in hand. I like designing my own toys when I have time. Thanks for letting me derail for a bit.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 12:50:54 PM by tstuart34 »

Offline tstuart34

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2014, 02:44:11 PM »
yea, im jealous too.  have you seen Jesse Jame's silencer designs? they are different but kinda weird.  i have my own ideas....

Just did some googling.... didn't get to far because of these stupid new firewalls! But that is interesting..... not sure i like the looks. Almost looks like a WWl grenade/rocket that was fired off of the rife. Hopefully he didn't copy the exploding part.

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: 6.5 Grendel
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 09:50:28 PM »

The curtains are the wife's choice.  I get the furnace room in the basement.  The rest of the house is hers.

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