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Author Topic: Another Perspective On Open Carry  (Read 4660 times)

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2014, 06:36:11 PM »
Negligent discharges are caused by the assumption that a firearm is not in condition 0.  In my view all firearms are always in condition 0 and treated as such, no wondering or indecision brought on by myriad scenarios. Just one state of readiness that never changes.

^^^^^^^^^^I 2nd THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

IT ALWAYS LEADS US BACK TO THE 4 BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY. (There is a reason they were written in blood)
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline Kodiak

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2014, 07:21:39 PM »
Negligent discharges happen. The vast majority of carriers carry with a round in the chamber. How many people would not survive their gun fight had they had an empty chamber? It's a hypothetical that I'm glad there will likely never be enough data for reliable stats. Defensive gun use doesn't always happen at ten feet where (if you trained that way) you could draw rack and fire. Sometimes you're already in the fight and are struggling to get even one hand to your weapon. Between the dynamic situation and sns activation, there is more than enough going on to deal with. Adding one more thing is tactically unsound.

Offline AWick

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2014, 08:43:02 PM »
Every time a baby cries a neglected glock spontaneously goes bang... wtf, dumbest sh*t I've read today
"Well-regulated" meant well equipped, trained and disciplined... not controlled with an iron fist.

Offline JTH

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2014, 09:00:34 PM »
What level of training, as in rounds fired, would someone say, is sufficient to go chamber hot?

Competency isn't based on rounds fired.

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Is a box of 50, when you first get a gun enough?  Is 50 a week enough?  More?

The problem, is not one thing causes ND's.  It is a combo of circumstances that cause them.  Baby crying, phone ringing, bills over due, fight with spouse, fight with neighbors spouse, kids, traffic, weather, job, jobs, stress.

That is not the most ridiculous list of things I've ever seen blamed for NDs.  However, it comes close.

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I guess we could ask the second in command at the 3 largest police dept in the state what caused the bullet hole in the ceiling of their dispatch office.  Maybe the answer is there.  Or maybe the 20 year police chief of another town, that has shot himself twice, in 20 years.

In many of those cases, we don't need to ask.  The answer is incompetence.

Don't forget the LEO in Iowa who shot his sergeant.  (And, I'll note, didn't even get a written reprimand in his file, if I recall correctly.)

All NDs are not the result of incompetence.  Some are temporary aberrations resulting from a sequence of mistakes.  However, the ones you listed ARE from incompetence, which is something else entirely.

I note that the LEO who shot his sergeant thought he had an empty chamber.  He was wrong.  Thinking to yourself "I always have an empty chamber" is insufficient to stop NDs.

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  When I see someone going condition 3, or condition 4, I do not see someone who is unfit to carry, I see someone that is thinking of all possible outcomes, and works what could happen, into their training, and into their life.

I see someone who is making their own choices based on their priorities. 

I'll note that their priorities do not include being able to quickly use their firearm for self-defense purposes.  And that's fine---it doesn't have to be their priority.

However, most people who carry firearms have self-defense as a priority, and thus choose differently.  Knowing that someone carries condition three (carrying condition four is talisman thinking, really, as it effectively means that in a self-defense situation, you have a handweight) tells me about their self-defense priorities.

On a personal level, it tells me about their gun-handling competence level, too.  IMO.

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In the video clip below, I call the mindset, the Rambo mentality.  No reason to have a condition 0 rifle, in a chow line, on a military base, except it does make for interesting movie viewing.

Yes, yes, we want to make decisions about people based on how movies portray them.

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  This mindset, in popular culture, trickles down into the people that watch such shows, and it influences their actions.  The child shot with a dropped gun at a Halloween party, is such a outcome.  Why does someone need a round chambered in a pocket pistol at a child's Halloween party?

That makes no sense.  Unless, of course, somehow you have any idea whatsoever that movies influenced that person's  thinking?

I'll note:  They probably felt they needed a round chambered because that is how they carried.  And there were carrying because that was habit for them.  There isn't anything special about that, and the idea that you think someone should be criticized for deciding to carry tells me a lot. Granted, I already knew that. 

Criticized for not carrying in a competent fashion, that resulted in harm?  Sure.  Criticized for having a loaded carry firearm?  Give me a break.

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Back to the subject of Open Carry of long guns, do the open carry folks think it prudent to carry a rifle Condition 0 or Condition 1?

Why would anyone carry an AR in Condition 0?  And plenty of people in the military carry ARs ALL THE TIME in Condition 1. 


Going back to the original picture---why in the world would you think that was Switzerland?  When just about every caption for that picture mentions that she is Israeli? 
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2014, 09:22:39 PM »
THANK YOU!!!  jthhapkido  that makes my monthly contribution worth it. :D
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline MissMichella

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2014, 09:50:41 PM »
I admit.  That first picture is me at the Farmer's Market last year. :laugh:

I personally OC my blocky Glock with the mag in and a round chambered.  For the first couple weeks when I started OCing, I carried without a round in the chamber.  Now I feel more comfortable chambered up.  While visiting Utah, I had to OC in condition 3 due to their laws...so it's good to know if there are any weird conditions to carry in different areas you frequent.

And +1 to what jthhapkido said. 
You have more confidence than a woman in a tampon commercial...
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Offline JTH

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2014, 10:17:09 PM »
While visiting Utah, I had to OC in condition 3 due to their laws...so it's good to know if there are any weird conditions to carry in different areas you frequent.

ABSOLUTELY. 

Every time I take a road trip, I check back on all the various state's laws on types of carry.  Not only do you not want to break the law, you don't want to be even THOUGHT of as breaking the law when far from home.  Being right but detained and having your firearm confiscated while the courts "work it out" in a state far from home is not what you want to have to deal with.


I've heard of plenty of people who first carried an empty gun around their house, to get used to the holster.  Then carried the gun without a round chambered in public until they got used to that.  Then ended up carrying in standard condition (mag in, chambered, holstered) afterward.

Those people had a plan to get themselves up to speed, and competent with firearms.  Can't argue with that at all.

And people can certainly carry how they like.  Hey, people can even carry their firearm disassembled in a plastic bag on the dash of their car, if that is what they want.

None of that changes the fact that certain modes of carry are more effective for self-defense.  People simply make their choices based on their priorities.

MissMichella, one of these days I need to meet you in person and have you take a look at a Safariland ALS holster.....because you seem like a nice person and a competent gun handler, and that SERPA holster makes me grit my teeth every time I see it.  :(

(Feel free to ignore me, though.  :) )
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Offline farmerbob

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"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline AWick

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Re: Another Perspective On Open Carry
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2014, 11:34:26 AM »
I recently ran the numbers on home swimming pool drownings to rebuff some close friends and family members. I found that if you have a swimming pool at your residence you are 31 times more likely to have an accidental drowning than a home with a firearm having an accidental shooting...

I'll have to try to track down the numbers used, but I pulled them straight from the CDC and compared them to the number of home swimming pools (temporary and permanent) that several different organizations and government entities estimate the are in the USA.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 11:37:21 AM by AWick »
"Well-regulated" meant well equipped, trained and disciplined... not controlled with an iron fist.