General Categories > Information Arsenal
A note from the GRPC
Phantom:
--- Quote from: Gunscribe on October 03, 2014, 11:06:26 PM ---The idea being that since it will pass in certain places gun owners should get out in front of the issue and work to get our own version of Universal Background Checks passed into law. 1. You as a gun buyer want to buy a gun. You call the FBI Hotline or log onto the website. After entering your information you are issued a confirmation number (i.e. xyz124)2. You come to me to buy a gun I have for sale. You give me your pre-approval number xyz124. I Call the Hotline or log into the website and enter the xyz124. It tells me that the person that possesses that number has passed the background check.3. I take you money and give you the gun. No record of the transfer exists except what we might create as a bill of sale.4. This would also work with gun shops. You take your xyz1234 to the gun shop they look it up and sell you the gun. It may in some form do away with the 4473 altogether. (maybe)There it is. Is it a workable solution? Is it something you/we/I could live with?
--- End quote ---
OK.....One BIG Problem I see.
Having been put on Hold status for a Gun purchase about two years ago ....
I was given the FBI NCIS Phone number and 4473 number for my transaction.
I was told that I could call them (FBI) to get info on why it got a hold status....
The Problem is when you call them ...they want to know your FFL# before they can do or will do anything.
So are we all going to be issued FFL permits ?
RLMoeller:
--- Quote from: AAllen on October 04, 2014, 01:13:44 PM --- Actually the FBI keeps track of all background checks, yes they can not keep the details but they do keep that a check was run on person X at this time by dealer Z. They then find out they need to track down firearm Y that was sold by Dealer Z at a specific time, all they need to do is go back to the records for that time and they know who to contact.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure that is true. At least not for tracing firearms. Traces are done as a series of phone calls starting with the manufacturer / importer, asking for the disposition record, and following the chain until they find the dealer that has a 4473. They ask for a copy of the 4473 and contact the buyer, and see where that leads.
As for keeping information, all they can keep now is demographic / statistical information. I'm not sure at what level, but all personally identifying information is suppose to be destroyed.
I am not saying that they follow the law. I'm not saying they aren't. But here is what they are suppose to do, according to law.
From the FBI website:
Privacy and Security of NICS Information
The privacy and security of the information in the NICS is of great importance. In October 1998, the Attorney General published regulations on the privacy and security of NICS information, including the proper and official use of this information. These regulations are available on the NICS website. Data stored in the NICS is documented federal data and access to that information is restricted to agencies authorized by the FBI. Extensive measures are taken to ensure the security and integrity of the system information and agency use. The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal. If the record is not able to be updated, the purchaser continues to be denied or delayed, and if that individual appeals the decision, the documentation must be resubmitted on every subsequent purchase. For this reason, the Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) has been established. This process permits applicants to request that the NICS maintain information about themselves in the VAF to prevent future denials or extended delays of a firearm transfer. (See VAF Section below.)
Now all of that is for NICS background checks. There are differences in what is to be kept for traces.
AAllen:
Rod maybe I'm being misunderstood or not saying what I mean clearly, they can keep a call log of all phone calls which does not have the NICS check data just a time stamp and who the call was from and subject. There are other sources of data that can be cross referenced to this, the info I read was a story from a just retired FBI agent who was telling how they did this to track down a criminal. Do they have all the info, no but with some cross referencing they can get a lot of info put together even when a normal trace would come up blank, some of it even getting to the individual purchaser. Now the online checks, that may be an entirely different subject, strange things that could be logged without keeping the record of the check just that a check was done.
AWick:
I have hesitations on that proposal that I still have to sort out. But looking at the "code" from a criminal standpoint, it would really make straw purchasing wayyy easier. They could almost just set up a phone bank and "sell" the clean codes to random guys on the street. Of course, a bad guy would be dumb to preemptively call the FBI... but I've seen dumber...
The only way to make something like a blind code like that work is if there was an ID tied to it. Buyer submits his credential, gets the code, and then the seller had to confirm the code and a photo ID. I've never been a fan of the expansion of power that has been gained through the drivers license. What used to be the equivalent of a boy scout whittling chit card is now the omnipresent "papers".
bkoenig:
--- Quote from: Phantom on October 04, 2014, 03:38:14 PM ---OK.....One BIG Problem I see.
Having been put on Hold status for a Gun purchase about two years ago ....
I was given the FBI NCIS Phone number and 4473 number for my transaction.
I was told that I could call them (FBI) to get info on why it got a hold status....
The Problem is when you call them ...they want to know your FFL# before they can do or will do anything.
So are we all going to be issued FFL permits ?
--- End quote ---
Why not just make NICS available to anyone who is selling a firearm, whether they're a dealer or private?
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