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Author Topic: 2A  (Read 3880 times)

Offline farmerbob

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2A
« on: September 21, 2014, 10:57:38 PM »
I thought I would like to share this. It comes from a constitutional lawyer I heard on Armed American Radio a few years back. Perhaps you already seen this, oh well.
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with 2A, take out any reference to arms, replace arms with books and it reads.

A well educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state.
The right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.

Okay there is no way you can draw from this that only the government, national guard or law enforcement should have access to books. And it would be silly to say that only the well educated should have books.
The only thing a logical person can come away with after reading this is it guarantees an individuals right to have books to read and that right shall not be taken away.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline jFader

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Re: 2A
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 11:56:35 PM »
I thought I would like to share this. It comes from a constitutional lawyer I heard on Armed American Radio a few years back. Perhaps you already seen this, oh well.
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with 2A, take out any reference to arms, replace arms with books and it reads.

A well educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state.
The right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.

Okay there is no way you can draw from this that only the government, national guard or law enforcement should have access to books. And it would be silly to say that only the well educated should have books.
The only thing a logical person can come away with after reading this is it guarantees an individuals right to have books to read and that right shall not be taken away.


love it!  I have heard a similar thing before... I have researched & watched all sorts of videos & articles talking about the breakdown of the language at the time of the bill of rights....It is pretty clear that a militia isn't the national guard, it is We The People!
The 2nd Amendment is not open for debate!

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Offline farmerbob

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Re: 2A
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 01:17:51 PM »
Another point that makes this relevant is to compare.......

A well regulated militia
Regulated at the time meant( well armed and well trained)
Regulated had nothing to do with restrictions.
Militia was the people, that in time of need, could pickup arms against a threat, whether from our government or a foreign one. They were NOT a branch of the military.

A well educated electorate
Now educated and regulated makes more sense.
If you compare militia and electorate. It doesn't make sense for the voting population to be the only ones to have access to books.

Overall the major substantial part of 2A ( THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE) and (SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED)  guarantees an individuals right to keep and bear arms, which has been reaffirmed in recent SCOTUS rulings.

The framers didn't put everything into the Constitution, certain things like self defense of ones life were a no brainer.( they also didn't say you had the right to breathe or eat) I guess they thought mankind was smart enough to figure some things out.(I guess they weren't aware how stupid some Libs could be)


« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 02:58:50 PM by farmerbob »
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: 2A
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 09:30:45 PM »
The framers didn't put everything into the Constitution, certain things like self defense of ones life were a no brainer.( they also didn't say you had the right to breathe or eat) I guess they thought mankind was smart enough to figure some things out.(I guess they weren't aware how stupid some Libs could be)

Nothing to do with stupid.  It has to do with fear.  As long as the populace is armed, it keeps them form implementing full and unquestioned control.





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Offline Mntnman

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Re: 2A
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 09:44:26 PM »
This is great. Now, understand that we accept infringements all of the time without thinking.

NFA of 1934.

1986 machine gun ban.

Felons losing their right to keep and bear.

Claiming that you are not a user of drugs on purchasing forms. Why do you think pot laws are getting looser?

Many believe that this somehow makes us safer. They need to do some reality checking. Safer from all threats? We always go along and then they gut the laws for the criminals anyway.

Offline RedDot

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Re: 2A
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 08:31:58 PM »
My little girl was given an assignment today at school for her to write a 300 word essay on what the 2nd Amendment means to her.  When asked, I offered my point of view, but left her with the caveat that the essay was supposed to be from HER point of view.  Here's hoping I don't get any frantic calls from OPS tomorrow!   :o

Offline farmerbob

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Re: 2A
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 11:07:45 PM »
My little girl was given an assignment today at school for her to write a 300 word essay on what the 2nd Amendment means to her.  When asked, I offered my point of view, but left her with the caveat that the essay was supposed to be from HER point of view.  Here's hoping I don't get any frantic calls from OPS tomorrow!   :o

That's very cool that a school in today's society even acknowledges the existence of the 2A.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: 2A
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 07:15:19 PM »
It is pretty clear that a militia isn't the national guard, it is We The People!

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

A bit more detail about what congress in the past has determined to be the "militia".  As far as I can tell this one is still on the books.

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Offline AAllen

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Re: 2A
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 08:21:27 PM »
My little girl was given an assignment today at school for her to write a 300 word essay on what the 2nd Amendment means to her.  When asked, I offered my point of view, but left her with the caveat that the essay was supposed to be from HER point of view.  Here's hoping I don't get any frantic calls from OPS tomorrow!   :o

My daughter got into a debate with her civics instructor over the second amendment, after he lost he decided to discuss it with me at parent teacher conference, he went sheepishly into the night.

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: 2A
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2014, 08:04:53 AM »

Offline RedDot

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Re: 2A
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2014, 11:52:36 AM »
Just got the report back of the final grade.  B-...  She was told the content was only worth a C because she failed to incorporate the opinions of those who are against the 2A and gun ownership.  I was puzzled as to how that factors in when the assignment was 2 paragraphs on what the 2A meant to HER.  However she bumped for the B- because she wrote 3 paragraphs instead of just 2.
 
 Not bad for OPS I guess.

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: 2A
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2014, 02:52:20 PM »
She got marked down for not including opinions that are unconstitutional and moot?
"Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder." ~ FCK

Offline farmerbob

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Re: 2A
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2014, 07:01:53 PM »
http://universalfreepress.com/ret-supreme-wants-radical-changes-constitution/

I just hope Obola doesn't have a chance to nominate any more SCOTUS.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline farmerbob

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Re: 2A
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2014, 07:50:54 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hx23c84obwQ?autoplay=1

Penn and Teller's classic's ( language warning) 2A.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: 2A
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2014, 07:59:00 PM »
His version of the  2A:
Quote
So in order to reflect the changing times, he says, the Second Amendment should be altered to add five key words: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the militia shall not be infringed.
makes no sense because if a "militia", i.e., army, didn't have a "right" to keep and bear arms it wouldn't  be an army worth depending on for defense.

Liberalism really screws up the brain ...

Offline depserv

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Re: 2A
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2014, 10:32:48 AM »
Here's another way to show the absurdity of attempts to misinterpret the militia clause: that clause is followed by one that says this: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."  So if "well regulated" means controlled by government, or "militia" means a government force, the second clause becomes a non sequitur (meaning does not follow logically).  So here's what those liars are claiming that the 2nd Amendment actually says: Arms shall be controlled by government, therefore arms shall not be controlled by government.  A, therefore not A, in other words.  The argument is absurd.

To build more directly on the OP, comparing the 2nd Amendment to the 1st in gun control debates can be a good way to shed light on the lies of gun control, and if anti-gun bigots claim that it's an apples-and-oranges comparison and therefore not relevant you can point out that there is much truth in the saying that the pen is mightier than the sword, and it can be as destructive.  Just look at how liberals always complain about money corrupting the elections that determine who leads our nation.  And what does that money buy?  Access to the proverbial pen, using the 1st Amendment right to wield it.  Our 1st Amendment rights, in other words, are what determine who runs the country, much more so than our 2nd Amendment rights (thank God), so they do allow the exercise of a great deal of power, and that power can be very destructive. 

One place this comparison is useful is in the argument that when the 2nd Amendment was written the modern arms of the day were single shot and slow to reload.  There are other flaws in that argument, but one is that the same thing could just as easily be applied to the 1st Amendment, since when it was written the press was literally the press.  Just as 20th Century arms (so-called assault weapons by the liars who try to outlaw them) are more powerful than 18th Century ones, 20th Century information media are more powerful too.  So a law against 20th Century arms is like a law giving government exclusive control over 20th Century media, meaning television, radio, the internet; all electronic media in other words.  Those who try to destroy the 2nd Amendment sow the seeds of the destruction of the 1st, and if the one goes the other will follow.

Or apply the comparison to gun buy backs.  How about a government-sponsored book buy back, where copies of the Constitution, the Bible, and other politically incorrect books can be turned in with no questions asked.

No argument will have any effect on the hard core anti-gun bigot, because he is not interested in truth or logic; he is ruled purely by hatred and intolerance.  But many who support gun control do so out of ignorance, and this kind of argument can affect those.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:41:46 AM by depserv »
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