Ohio CCW Instructors Fined for Violations

[UPCrawfish]

Ohio mandates minimum of 12 hours instruction for CCW certification.  Two instructors were cutting classes by 1.5 to 3 hours in some cases.  They were reported to Ohio State Patrol who sent 'students' to class.

 http://limaohio.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=LI&date=20141125&category=news&lopenr=311259946&Ref=AR

[GreyGeek]

Naughty, naughty.
They are risking their students lives by short circuiting their training.  It would be like my flight instructor telling me after 5 hours of duel that it would be OK for me to go around the patch by myself, or carry passengers.

[Mntnman]

The training is BS. Do we need it to exercise our right? Yes, but we shouldn't. Iowa doesn't fingerprint or shoot. Half a day on the laws and your are gone.

[bullit]

So does Mr. Gordon now lose his gun ownership rights with his felony conviction?  Interesting in light of later on the article stating he and his partner would have to take a new CHP class....

[GreyGeek]

The training is BS. Do we need it to exercise our right? Yes, but we shouldn't. Iowa doesn't fingerprint or shoot. Half a day on the laws and your are gone.

BS?  Uh huh.  That's why Senator Dianne Feinstein swept the crowd with the muzzle of an AR-15 while her finger was on the trigger, which  is evidence that her CHP was given to her without any hands on gun training.  She wasn't aware of the basics of gun safety.

[Mntnman]

I was not saying we shouldn't train. I am simply stating that there should not be a law requiring it.

[DCPrecisionLLC]

I am very torn a lot of times on how I feel about what should and should not be required by law. We all have a god given and constitutional right to bear arms, but not everyone should and we all know that. Everyone has met "that guy" (or gal) that has horrible gun safety and everyone wishes they wouldn't own one. But they have the right to do so and who am I to say whether or not that right should be taken away. The real problem lies with our modern gun shy culture. Not everyone has grown up with firearms and proper safety rules from a young age. If that was the case we wouldn't have these issues. Look at countries like Israel and Switzerland where serving in the military is mandatory and almost everyone has a service rifle or pistol. They don't have these same problems, but they also have a VERY DIFFERENT culture than our own. It leaves me frustrated because sometimes I feel that safety classes should be mandatory, but at the same time I would be angry if someone told me I had to take one because I have grown up around firearms and was taught at a very young age to respect them. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue.

As far as the training being a waste of time, that depends on the class and the instructors that teach it. I would argue that the training I provide is very beneficial to my students but I also take the extra time to go further in depth than what is required by law.

[ILoveCats]

BS?  Uh huh.  That's why Senator Dianne Feinstein swept the crowd with the muzzle of an AR-15 while her finger was on the trigger, which  is evidence that her CHP was given to her without any hands on gun training.  She wasn't aware of the basics of gun safety.

I think the point is that there's a distinction between training and a constitutional right.   

I don’t think most people are going to argue that training is a waste of time.  Leftists always roll out the example of how we need to jump through bureaucratic hoops to get a driver’s license, so why not the same for guns?   There's a logical appeal to that on the surface because training does help most people.  I lived in Germany for a couple years and never saw a single auto accident.  In Lincoln I see several accident scenes every week as I commute to work.  Pure coincidence?  Maybe but I reckon that it had to do with the fact that the Germans require significantly more training to receive ein Führerschein.

Nevertheless, the driver’s license analogy fails simply because there’s no constitutional right to keep and drive cars.  Human rights are always a double edged sword.  Some people will abuse their rights, and others won’t that the mental perspicacity to use them safely.

[DR4NRA]

So does Mr. Gordon now lose his gun ownership rights with his felony conviction?  Interesting in light of later on the article stating he and his partner would have to take a new CHP class....

Any felony means loss of ownership. Unless given a pardon and conviction expunged, or overturned on appeal.
They were ordered to pay for the classes of any student that needed to retake the class to qualify, not the perps themselves.

[mott555]

I would be all for mandatory firearms training if it was easily accessible, like, say, as required classes in 5th grade or so.

[GreyGeek]

The Jr & Sr high schools I attended had gun clubs that offered after school hours training in firearms safety, along with shooting lessons at a local range.  It was not uncommon for a kid to bring his .22 rifle to school and store it in his locker until after school.  Many kept the rifle or piston in their cars.   The sight of anyone carrying a firearm was unremarkable.

[ILoveCats]

I would be all for mandatory firearms training if it was easily accessible, like, say, as required classes in 5th grade or so.

Indeed, why not?  I took/passed hunter's saftey as a required part of junior high PE class in public school.  Why shouldn't that have counted toward some of the training mandate for the CCW?  Why the fragmentation between different state government requirements and certifications?

[SemperFiGuy]

The Jr & Sr high schools I attended had gun clubs that offered after school hours training in firearms safety, along with shooting lessons at a local range.  It was not uncommon for a kid to bring his .22 rifle to school and store it in his locker until after school.  Many kept the rifle or piston in their cars.   The sight of anyone carrying a firearm was unremarkable.

Yup.

Every Tuesday morning during high school I put my Winchester Model 67 bolt-action single-shot .22LR on my shoulder and walked up to the bus stop.  Couldn't afford a gun case, so didn't use one.   Most of us rifle club members didn't.  Carried the rifle bare-naked.  (Not me; the rifle.)

Took the bolt out, put it in my pocket.  Showed the No-Bolt Wonder to the bus driver when I got on.  He nodded.  I sat down in the bus with the rifle pointed up between my legs. 

Got off at school, shouldered the gun, and walked in with the rest of the students.  Put the gun in my locker.

After school, took the gun back out, went to the school rifle range, shot with the rifle club.  No teacher or coach in attendance; just the club officers.

After shooting, I reversed the process and went home.

Nobody ever looked at me, made any kind of a comment..........Nuthin'.  Ever..........

Wonder what would happen today?

sfg