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Author Topic: Ammo  (Read 1788 times)

Offline farmerbob

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Ammo
« on: November 18, 2014, 07:19:04 PM »
http://patriotnewswire.com/2014/11/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/

Some pretty cool stuff happening in ammo as they switch from quantity to innovation.
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Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 07:49:02 PM »
That is pretty cool.  But your don't shoot window expands pretty far.  I'd be afraid of that shrapnel going in unpredictable places.
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 08:41:47 PM »
http://libertyammunition.com/liberty-ammunition-civil-defense-9mm-gel-test-gun-runnerz/

+p, high velocity, light weight fragmenting hollow points.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 09:08:22 PM »
I believe this is what must be done when you go lead free to make an effective self defense round.

Is this a result of the tree huggers?  ::)
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Offline JTH

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2014, 09:48:11 AM »
I'm hoping this is meant as humor (the original post) because the RIP ammo got released quite a long time ago, to lots of overblown media attention---after which people who actually understood ballistics got ahold of it, tested it, and pretty much came to the conclusion people expected:  This stuff is pure gimmick ammo that not only doesn't do what it says, but will be less effective than even poorly-performing HP ammo.

Odd that the "Patriot Newswire" didn't pick that up until now.  The original media blurb (which was copied everywhere, proving that most places will print whatever you send them---one of the indicators of the nonsense was that everyone's "article" had the exact same wording) came out months ago.  (Matter of fact, it came out in Jan 2014---with the exact same wording and nonsense.  I'm thinking the Patriot Newswire copied the 11-month-old media blurb.  Ex:  http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/24/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/  )

Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure you can find some old threads here on the forum talking about this stuff---and how poorly it actually performs.

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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 01:01:16 PM »
I guess the moral to the story is what self defense rounds might look like if liberals get their way and ban lead in ammo.( You think they could use something heavier like in waterfowl shot)

PS: Thanks for your .02 worth jthhapkido, much appreciated as always.
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Offline JTH

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 01:39:24 PM »
PS: Thanks for your .02 worth jthhapkido, much appreciated as always.

Man, I just read again what I wrote and realized that I sounded like an @$$. 

NOT what I meant at all---it just surprised me that several news sources (I've seen this pop up in a number of places recently) are suddenly marketing for RIP ammo, using the exact same marketing copy blurbs that were released 11 months ago....

...and I came off sounding like an @$$.  My apologies, I did not mean to act like I was criticizing folks.   Seriously, I'm sorry about that.  :(


I wonder if RIP is having extremely poor sales (not a surprise) so they are trying to drum up interest again, but haven't written any new ad copy, so they are just re-releasing their old ads?
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 02:49:35 PM »
Yeah I don't no nothing about RIP ammo or how it preforms but it looks like Liberty Ammo is throwing something out kinda similar.

PS: No worries. I would like to get into one of your shooting skills classes in the future if time allows.
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Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 04:19:35 PM »
PS: Thanks for your .02 worth jthhapkido, much appreciated as always.

Indeed.  Like jthhapkido, I saw that article last January, and there was a short discussion here about it, but I didn't search for it.   

First off, they are not cheap. 

Secondly, Copper is 27%  less dense than Lead (8.96 vs 11.36) so for the same momentum Copper  has to travel 1.27 times faster.  Because it is less dense, drag will slow it down more quickly and its affective range.  They allow for even more velocity by shooting a lighter bullet, but that makes the drag problem worse because drag is a function of the square of velocity ... double the velocity and you quadruple the drag.

Third, I suspect that because of negative publicity (making gun owners look blood thirsty) they'll withdraw the round just as Winchester did with the Black Talon, but continues to market a round which is essentially identical, but not advertised as the Talon was.


The first INDEPENDENT testing I read about was here:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/#more-293429

Quote
I could say a lot about this – such as that it’s irresponsible, or even offensive to the very essence of self defense (which is about stopping an attack, not about killing the attacker).  If a prosecutor could prove that you intended and set about to kill an attacker, your claim of self defense might just go out the window.
Besides issues with feeding, the article went on to report its ballistic gel results.
Quote
G2 claimed a 6” spread for the trocars, but in my test the spread was 4.5” wide x 3.5” tall, so – it missed that one by a mile.  As for penetration, on the back of the box they claim 15” to 17”.  It didn’t reach that level, in my test the base penetrated to 12.75” and came to a stop.  Now, that’s not bad — the FBI minimum is 12”, so penetrating 12.75” means it demonstrates sufficient penetration to be able to reach vital organs, and with proper aim, potentially deliver an incapacitating wound. But 12.75” isn’t 15”… and it certainly isn’t the 17” they listed on the box.
The lab went on to replicate the ballistic results reported by R.I.P, by using ...
Quote
A few .22LR’s. From a handgun. A 3.5”-barrel Bersa Thunder .22, to be exact. Not even a rifle; it took a few shots from the most woefully inadequate defensive weapon on the market to recreate the damage profile of the new G2 R.I.P. ammo.
...
Specifically, I used a couple of shots of CCI Segmented Hollow Point 32-grain varmint rounds to make the initial large damage cavity and the “trocars”. The CCI segmented hollow point splits into three pieces. Each piece weighs a little under 11 grains and they each go on their own path, just like the G2 R.I.P. trocars do. However, the R.I.P. trocars only weigh about six grains each, so the heavier chunks of .22LR bullet actually penetrated quite a bit further (and therefore did more damage) than G2’s trocars do. Since each CCI segmented hollowpoint splits into three pieces, I used two shots to get six “trocars” in the block.

So, with your trusty .22LR shooting segmented hollow points just double tap the perp.

Quote
The trocars spread out to a 3.5” diameter, and penetrated to about 4” of depth. Again, neither of those results meet the claims on the back of the box (where they say it’ll achieve a 6” spread on the trocars, and 15 to 17” of penetration)...

The article goes on with a lot more testing and data, but the results are devastating to the R.I.P. round.

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 04:43:56 PM »
Thanks for the info GG.

I was reading in a rag where they thought law enforcement might go to expanding bullets like the Federal Guard Dog.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 07:50:01 PM by farmerbob »
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 06:28:52 PM »
http://cbmint.com/silver/bullets

This would make for some pretty expensive shooting.
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Offline Mali

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Re: Ammo
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2014, 09:40:16 PM »
Unless there be werewolves or you wear a mask.  ;D
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Offline farmerbob

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"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington