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Author Topic: Appleseed article  (Read 1879 times)

Offline bkoenig

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Appleseed article
« on: October 14, 2009, 08:05:33 PM »

Offline SBarry

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 08:16:04 PM »
We made a contact with them at St. Louis. I would like to find some volunteers to help get a few set up across the state. They speak about getting involved in our cause. I am working to get one set up in Kearney next spring, we need volunteers for everywhere else. If you can help arrange one in your town, let me know. Under 18 or female get to attend free, adult males are $70-$80 per class. This would also be a good opportunity to spread our message and grow the organization.
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Offline rugermanx

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 03:11:48 AM »
It sounds like a decent group, and they seem to be well intentioned, but I just have trouble believing everything I read on a website. So for those of you that "made contact" what was your impression?


In the mean time I will talk to a few people in the area here and see if there would be any interest. The only problem is that we really don't have much of a range real close that's longer than 100 yds (and I'm not really sure how many shooters it would accommodate at the required 4ft per shooter). I will get ahold of the owners to see how big it is and see if they would be willing to let us use that range. If I can come up with a range and at least a little bit of local interest I will post back here. If there is some local interest I would be willing to get one set up. However I'm not extremely good at planning parties so I may need some advice from someone with some experience.

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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 06:59:47 AM »
I attended one in Grand Island a couple of weeks ago and it was worth every penny.  Interestingly enough, they don't encourage any one particular point of view.  Other than promoting marksmanship, their goal is just to create involved citizens.  It's a fight against apathy as much as anything else.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:01:01 AM by bkoenig »

Offline Rich B

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 10:54:50 AM »
I was in the GI class back in September too.  There was little to no discussion of politics, gun control, or anything like that.  They were there to teach us how to shoot, not pontificate about their love or hate of laws and politicians.

For those looking to set one up, you do not need a very large/long range.  I think we had around 15 people on the line with space for 20.  Shooting is done at 25 yards (meters?).  It could probably even be done indoors too, but you'll need the space to get prone.  They provide the instructors.  You'll need to provide the range.  This is an all-day event, so having one in Mid-July might not be very pleasant.  The weather we had in early September was PERFECT.

FWIW, my friend made "Rifleman" (their top honor) with a iron-sighted Ruger 10/22 with a stock trigger and Federal Bulk Pack.  The only modification was a set of Tech sights (rear peep).  The other four individuals who made Rifleman (including a young lady) were shooting highly modified, scoped 10/22s.  The point is you don't need a $6,000 Accuracy Int'l bench gun.

We shot around 600 rounds, IIRC, over both days so centerfire can get expensive and it can also be punishing if you have a .308, '06, etc. 
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Offline SBarry

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 12:57:27 PM »
The guys told me that they talk about history and getting involved, and that it gives the shooters a little incentive and awareness about what is going on.
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Offline Rich B

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 08:41:22 PM »
They do give a history lesson regarding the events leading up to the revolution.  I suppose that's technically political and Tories might be offended.

I don't recall them mentioning anything current about the state of affairs of the 2A and RKBA.
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Offline FarmerRick

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 09:01:22 PM »
I'd really like to attend an appleseed shoot this coming year if they have one on this side of the state.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2009, 01:21:14 PM »
So Rich, how much time do you need to spend in the sitting position. I am wondering if I am limber enough to spend a long time in that position as my legs go numb...

Do the strings of fire in a course have a time limit ( i assume they do ) as the info refers to high capacity and multilpe magazines being recommended.

If we all think it's a good idea, I could start a section just for Appleseed discussion.



ETA: I think I have answered my own questions

AQT is pretty much the same as the National Match Course in High Power
- 10 Rounds Slow Fire Standing (100m simulated)
- 10 Rounds Rapid Fire Sitting (200m simulated, two targets one mag change, start standing)
- 10 Rounds Rapid Fire Prone (300m simulated, three targets one mag change, start standing)
- 20 (or 10 for QDAQT) Rounds Slow Fire Prone (400m simulated, four+ targets)
- Targets scored and logged . 200+ on AQT  = Rifleman.

The standard time limits for the slow fires are ~1 minute per shot and the rapid fires are ~5-6 seconds per shot.
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Offline Rich B

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2009, 11:48:44 AM »
I could not do the sitting position due to my hip and knee problems. 

Part of the qualification test requires you to get into a sitting position, I think that string of fire is 60-90 seconds.  There's also the instructional portion earlier in the day where you'll practice the sitting position.  If you can't do it, don't.  Practice something else.

IIRC, the longest string is the final one, that's maybe 4 minutes long.


No need to dilute the forum with another forum.  Thanks for the offer though!
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Offline iiranger

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Problem... Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 03:31:21 PM »
In Lincoln there is an "appleseed project" for aid to the poor and down and out, especially legal... I doubt they favor gun ownership... Need to make the difference very, VERY obvious (or they might sue... Like MacDonalds, the hamburger joint, suing the family McDonald for use of the name when the family had been using it for 800 years... ha, ha, ha).

Offline Wesley D

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 04:29:10 PM »
It sounds like a decent group, and they seem to be well intentioned, but I just have trouble believing everything I read on a website. So for those of you that "made contact" what was your impression?

I'm an instructor with Appleseed and can tell you it's the most cost-efficient (inexpensive) American heritage and marksmanship program you'll find.  Every instructor is a volunteer and our mission is simple: Saving Our Country.  We believe this can be done by teaching the heritage of our country's founding and telling people the stories of the great men and women who pledged their lives, treasures, and sacred honor so that we would have the freedom that so many take for granted today - plus we've got a really fun marksmanship program.

As far as the marksmanship instruction, we teach basic rifle marksmanship to a 4 MOA standard (1" @ 25 yds... which translates to 20" at 500 yds).  We'll also teach bullet drop ballistics, come-ups, and windage if a longer, high power range is available.  But all we really need is a 25 yd range - if you can't keep all of your groups in a 1" square at 25 yd, then there's no reason to be shooting longer distances and wasting time walking 100s of yards to the target line to check/swap targets when you could be spending that time on the trigger practicing the basics at 25 yds.   >:D  Rich is also correct that you don't need a $6000 rifle.  We teach software, not hardware.  Run what you got.  Many people do end up bringing Ruger 10/22s, Marlin 795s, AR22s, or other rimfires because we'll easily go through 400 rounds in a weekend and everyone's on a budget.  To get you to the 4 MOA standard, we teach the 6 Steps to Firing the Shot, Natural Point of Aim, 3 positions (standing, sitting, and prone - no sandbags or benchrests, just you, your rifle, and your sling), and how to zero your rifle and calculate Inches, Minutes, and Clicks. 

Regarding the politics of Appleseed, we only talk about 2 political parties: the Tories and the Whigs.   ;)  How people want to apply the American heritage stories we teach to modern day is up to each individual. 

Quote from: Dan W
So Rich, how much time do you need to spend in the sitting position. I am wondering if I am limber enough to spend a long time in that position as my legs go numb...


The program is flexible to the individual.  If you have trouble getting into a sitting position, for example, then you can fire that stage from another position.  You were pretty close on the course of fire for the Army Qualification Target (AQT):
Stage 1: 1 mag, 10 rounds, no mag change, standing position no transition, 100yd simulated target, 2 min.
Stage 2: 2 mags, 2/8 rounds, mag change, sitting position transitioned from standing, 200yd simulated target, 55 sec.
Stage 3: 2 mags, 2/8 rounds, mag change, prone position transitioned from standing, 300yd simulated target, 65 sec.
Stage 4: 1 mag, 10 rounds, no mag change, prone position no transition, 400yd simulated target, 5 min. 

There's also target shifting required on Stages 2, 3, and 4.  Rifleman is a score of 210+. 

For more info on the program, check out the Appleseed Site then look around - and if you really want to jump in, check out the Appleseed Forum.  Nebraska started a little later than the other states, so we've got some fast growing to do to catch up with our neighbors.  Currently, I'm still living in Colorado and I'm not sure when I'll actually get moved to the Omaha area (hopefully in the next few months), but once I do, I'd like to start having regular Appleseed shoots near Omaha.  So I'll be looking to talk to anyone who has a range, or farm land, where we can safely set up a 25 yd range.  In fact, if you currently have a range (or land suitable for a short range) and want to get an Appleseed set up, send me a PM so we can talk and then I can start on the paperwork to get a shoot there even before I get moved - as has been mentioned, we bring our own instructors and our own insurance.  Plus women and under 21 (and active military) are free, so ranges tend to like us and invite us back because we draw people to the range who otherwise may not have chosen to spend their entire weekend listening to stories about April 19, 1775 (when marksmanship met history and the heritage began) - and throwing 400 rounds at targets.

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« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 04:29:59 PM by zombiehunter »
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Offline rugermanx

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Re: Appleseed article
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 04:52:08 PM »
Thanks for the reply zombiehunter, I have talked to a few people here (north of Lincoln, West of Omaha) and there is at least a little bit of interest. I have not gotten to talk to the range yet to see if that is available or not but if farmland works then that may be another possibility. I will PM you when I have a chance to get ahold of the range.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. Benjamin Franklin