Ammunition & Hand Loading > General Ammunition Discussion
Reloaded .270 ammo
Les:
I had advertised them some time ago on a predominately firearm website and promptly got a call from a concerned citizen advising against said ad. I removed it. I appreciate all the comments here as I wasn't sure what was and wasn't legal.
Mali:
With that being said, what is the legality of reloading for people who want something but don't have the equipment?
For instance, suppose I had the brass, bullets, primers and powers to reload ammo (because I either did the research or talked to you to find out what I wanted) but not the equipment. Are there issues with either me coming to your place and us having a reload party on your equipment or your accepting the supplies from me and then returning the completed cartridges?
unfy:
--- Quote from: Mali on May 20, 2015, 10:16:26 AM ---With that being said, what is the legality of reloading for people who want something but don't have the equipment?
For instance, suppose I had the brass, bullets, primers and powers to reload ammo (because I either did the research or talked to you to find out what I wanted) but not the equipment. Are there issues with either me coming to your place and us having a reload party on your equipment or your accepting the supplies from me and then returning the completed cartridges?
--- End quote ---
I think you're tying into the "let someone else push the button to make a gun" ruling the ATF released this year in 2015-1 ?
There is no problem with letting someone else use your tools to make ammo as far as I know. Charging them to use your tools to make ammo - I dunno.
Accepting the supplies from someone and then returning to them loaded ammunition should technically be fine as well. There was no money (or 'in kind') traded hands etc. If they paid you to do it or some other kind of trade (maybe they gave you an extra 5% of materials you kept) - then there is probably some problems. I'm not sure how "reloading ammo as a service" works out for the DDTC/ITAR stuff, but you'd prolly want an FFL06 just in case (and maybe a class 7 ?).
Oh, and you still have culpability for the produced ammo. See also: if their goes boom and they try to blame the ammo... uh oh.
tstuart34:
--- Quote from: unfy on May 20, 2015, 10:38:41 AM ---I think you're tying into the "let someone else push the button to make a gun" ruling the ATF released this year in 2015-1 ?
There is no problem with letting someone else use your tools to make ammo as far as I know. Charging them to use your tools to make ammo - I dunno.
Accepting the supplies from someone and then returning to them loaded ammunition should technically be fine as well. There was no money (or 'in kind') traded hands etc. If they paid you to do it or some other kind of trade (maybe they gave you an extra 5% of materials you kept) - then there is probably some problems. I'm not sure how "reloading ammo as a service" works out for the DDTC/ITAR stuff, but you'd prolly want an FFL06 just in case (and maybe a class 7 ?).
Oh, and you still have culpability for the produced ammo. See also: if their goes boom and they try to blame the ammo... uh oh.
--- End quote ---
To some extent I think people are reading a bit to into this... and the worse thing is its so damn foggy you can't see your own damn hand when you touch your nose.
The hole using someone elses machines to make weapons is still really fuzzy in my opnion. The way I understand there letter is you can not walk into a machine shop hand them 25 dollars and press a button wait and have a finished firearm kicked out. But you can give the shop $25 dollars rent to use there machine for 2 hrs write your own CNC code put your chunk of aluminum in the machine and press start. But like I said that is my understanding. And it a damn blurry one at that.
If you have the equipment and your friend wants to do some reloading sell him your components make a bill of sale for him and yourself if you want some piece of mind. Now teach your friend safe reloading show him how to use your machine how to check critical dimensions. Now he can come over and when he needs to do some reloading and whip out some ammo or better yet go buy his own equipment.
Note: With a 07ffl a 06FFL is not needed.
So another question....
Though some of my research some people argue intent. You have x amount of reloaded ammo for your 270. Your intent was to shoot it in your 270 but you decided to see your 270 because of what ever reason. Now you have x amount of 270 rounds with nothing to shoot them. Some people have argued that your intention was not to manufacture the ammo but to shot it. This is the same argument when it comes down to manufacturing home built firearms. You can not manufacture a firearm without a 07ffl with the intention of selling it. But you can manufacture a firearm and decide after it is manufactured that you no longer need or want the firearm and sell it.
So my question is how is ammo any different the a firearm?
newfalguy101:
--- Quote ---Though some of my research some people argue intent. You have x amount of reloaded ammo for your 270. Your intent was to shoot it in your 270 but you decided to see your 270 because of what ever reason. Now you have x amount of 270 rounds with nothing to shoot them. Some people have argued that your intention was not to manufacture the ammo but to shot it. This is the same argument when it comes down to manufacturing home built firearms. You can not manufacture a firearm without a 07ffl with the intention of selling it. But you can manufacture a firearm and decide after it is manufactured that you no longer need or want the firearm and sell it.
So my question is how is ammo any different the a firearm?
--- End quote ---
There is no difference.
If you build a firearm for your own personal use and get bored with it you can legally sell it.
If you build a firearm to SELL you need to have an FFL.
If you load ammo for your own personal use, and at some point no longer have a use for said ammo, you can legally sell it. It would be no different than if you went to the store and purchased ammo and later sold the gun, you bought it to use, but now don't have a use so you can sell it.
If you load ammo TO SELL, you need an FFL.
Now to really confuse the issue...................
I hold an 01 FFL, I can legally sell you all of the components to build your own gun, then after selling you the components, you could then bring said components to me ( if I were a gunsmith and offered this service... ) and I could then build YOUR components into a working gun and it is gunsmithing, NOT manufacturing.
On the other hand, if I were to buy all of the components and BUILD a gun to offer for sale, I would be in violation as my 01FFL doesn't not allow manufacturing.
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