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Author Topic: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds  (Read 924 times)

Offline bennysdad

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More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« on: August 14, 2015, 08:21:36 AM »
Apparently an attempt to paint a picture to get all guns away from law abiding citizens.  Obama still pushing for gun reform.

Article below:

"Police officers are most likely to be killed in states where the most people own guns, a new study finds.

The report is sure to be controversial, but it adds a new dimension to a conversation that's recently been focused more on police shootings of unarmed Americans.

This study looks at who's killing the cops, and it's overwhelmingly people with private guns, David Swedler of the University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health found.

"OFFICERS ARE THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE MURDERED ON THE JOB IN HIGH GUN OWNERSHIP STATES IN COMPARISON WITH LOW GUN OWNERSHIP STATES. THAT WAS THE BIG WOW FOR ME."
"If we're interested in protecting police officers, we need to look at what's killing them, and what's killing them is guns," says Swedler.

Swedler's team used the FBI's Uniformed Crime Reporting database to check on all homicides of law enforcement officers between 1996 and 2010. They used a giant survey called the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System to get data on gun ownership.

Their findings: The No. 1 cause of on-the-job death for police is motor vehicle accidents. But gun deaths came second, they reported in the American Journal of Public Health.

"We were not surprised to find that firearm ownership is associated with homicide rates," Swedler told NBC news.

"The big surprise finding to me was the differences in homicide rates among officers in states with the lowest gun ownership compared to states with highest gun ownership," he added.

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"Officers are three times more likely to be murdered on the job in high gun ownership states in comparison with low gun ownership states. That was the big wow for me."

Police and sheriffs' organizations disagree on gun laws, gun control and gun ownership and whether limits would help reduce crime.

Swerdler's one of a group of researchers who want to see what the data shows, and who consider gun ownership and gun laws matters that can legitimately be studied and debated as public and occupational health issues.

"To me, an officer is a worker just like any worker in America. Workers have the right to come home from work at the end of the day," Swedler said.

"We in occupational health and safety look to protect the lives of workers."

His team found 782 homicides of police officers over the 15 years they looked. Of those, 716 were committed using guns and 515 of those with handguns.

On average, 38 percent of U.S. households have at least one gun, ranging from 4.8 percent of homes Washington, D.C. to 62 percent in Wyoming, the researchers found. This fits in with other studies.

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Mississippi and Montana were the states with the highest rates of both gun ownership and for law enforcement killings. Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island had the lowest per-capita rate for both.

It's important to calculate the rates by per capita, said Swedler, because large states have more killings and more guns simply because they have more people.

Swedler said his team also made sure that police killings were not related to violent crime in general.

"Hypothetically, officers might be put at increased risk if they are more frequently encountering violent criminals, but our data doesn't find that to be the case," he said. "We find that officers are at an increased risk for being killed the more frequently they encounter guns in public settings."

One big driver of this: domestic violence.

"Research shows that responding to domestic violence calls are one of the most common situations in which officers are killed," Swedler said.

"TO ME, AN OFFICER IS A WORKER JUST LIKE ANY WORKER IN AMERICA. WORKERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME HOME FROM WORK AT THE END OF THE DAY."
"In states where firearms are more prevalent, officers responding to reports of domestic violence are more often entering potentially lethal situations compared to officers responding to such calls in states with lower firearm prevalence," Swedler said

Police need to understand this, Swedler said, and police department leaders should consider rates of gun ownership in training officers.

"How can we prepare our officers in light of the presence of guns in our state?" Swedler said.

And voters need to decide what to do about findings like his, he said.

"If people in the United States are concerned about the lives of police officers, think about the laws in your state regarding firearms," Swedler said.

"We didn't say one type of law is going to sentence officers to death, whereas another type of law is going to save all officers' lives. What we are saying is consider laws in your state about firearm possession."

But Everytown, an organization that groups Mayors Against illegal Guns, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America and other advocates together, says its research shows that just enforcing existing gun laws can help.

"Original research Everytown recently published with the Major Cities Chiefs shows that more than half of law enforcement shot to death were killed by criminals who were barred by law from buying or owning guns but got them anyway," Ted Alcorn, research director for the group, said via email.

"Nothing does more to reduce these deaths than a strong background check system: FBI data shows that in states that require background checks for all handgun sale, blocking criminals from buying guns in unlicensed sales online or at gun shows, there are 48 percent fewer law enforcement officers killed with handguns," he said.
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http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/more-guns-more-dead-cops-study-finds-n409356
β€œIn a democracy, citizens are supposed to act as partners in enforcing laws. Those forced to follow rules without being trusted even for a moment are, in fact, slaves.” by Jaron Lanier

Offline Lorimor

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 08:39:37 AM »
Maybe if we cut down on the number of felons on the streets, that would help?  Maybe more jails need to be built and used?
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Offline Mudinyeri

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 08:57:20 AM »
Maybe if we cut down on the number of felons on the streets, that would help?  Maybe more jails need to be built and used?

Or ... made domestic violence illegal (since it is the most dangerous type of call, according to the study).  Oh, wait ....  What if we made it illegal to kill a police officer?  Oh, wait ....

Offline Gunscribe

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 01:30:43 PM »
I am willing to bet that they did not factor out officer suicide and officers that were killed with their own guns.
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Offline Phantom

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 02:32:40 PM »
Quote
Police officers are most likely to be killed in states where the most people own guns
  ???

Boy talk about a lopsided article ....   they aren't even talking about Police officers killed just by Guns.  :o

It's counting any and all Police officers Killed period......
Damn I'll even bet it doesn't even differentiate between on duty or off duty Killing either.

And used only the facts they liked in it too.






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« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:40:50 PM by Phantom »
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Offline JTH

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 09:52:32 PM »
I am willing to bet that they did not factor out officer suicide and officers that were killed with their own guns.

That's the important part they left out, I think.  If I recall correctly, in the 80s it was up to 20% of officers killed were killed with their own gun.  In 2002-2011, it was more like 5.1%.

The study itself says "Homicides of Law Enforcement Officers" so at least they might have not included suicides.  However, their results are sparse, to say the least:

"Using Poisson regression and controlling for factors known to affect homicide rates, we associated firearm ownership with the homicide rates for LEOs (incidence rate ratio?=?1.044; P?=?.005); our results were supported by cross-sectional and longitudinal sensitivity analyses. LEO homicide rates were 3 times higher in states with high firearm ownership compared with states with low firearm ownership."

...considering they don't actually show the actual results, nor any sort of confidence interval, and their "controlling for factors known to affect homicide rates" bit blurs mathematical "adjustments" quite nicely....I'm thinking I'd like to read the entire study.

Particularly because of their choice of data sets---they taking homicide data from 1996 to 2010, and then "We calculated homicide rates per state as the number of officers killed per number of LEOs per state, obtained from another FBI database. We obtained the mean household firearm ownership for each state from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System."

....are they taking those comparison numbers from the correct respective years?  Plus, we already know that the BRFSS is suspect, at best.  (Oddly enough, lately people don't give fully truthful answers to government employees asking if they own guns.)

At first glance, their results seem----like something that needs significantly more support than their abstract presents.

Actually, the best flag for it being a crap study is that Hemenway was part of it.  That man hasn't performed a statistically significant logical scientific study in YEARS.
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Offline depserv

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Re: More Police Are Killed in States With More Guns, Study Finds
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 06:58:03 PM »
This is one rebuttal; I'd like to see more, but this one isn't bad.

http://bearingarms.com/horribly-flawed-research-blames-police-deaths-states-gun-ownership/

I would add that even if this lie was not a lie, it would not necessarily mean that more guns are the cause of more police deaths.  To make such an assumption is a type of logical fallacy called after the fact therefore because of the fact.  It's like you're at a family picnic and your uncle Joe shows up (and you never liked Uncle Joe); then it starts raining, so you say "well it wasn't raining until Uncle Joe got here."  A correlation between two things, in other words, does not necessarily mean that one caused the other.  The same thing might have caused both of them to happen, or the correlation might be coincidental.   

It might also be pointed out that many police (and civilian) lives could be saved by doing away with the 4th and 5th Amendments.  And if we threw in the 1st we could save even more.  Assuming for the sake of argument that what anti-gun bigots say about guns being a public danger and no lives are saved by them is true (which is an absurd assumption), would anyone try to argue that doing away with the 2nd Amendment would do more to protect us from criminals than doing away with the 4th and 5th Amendments?  Maybe a very deeply indoctrinated liberal or a really good liar, but no honest person with a brain would try to argue that.  So why then is there so much talk about doing away with the lesser "problem" but little or none about doing away with the greater one?  I think the answer is pretty well known among patriots: gun control is not about saving lives and never has been; it's all about power over the many concentrated into the hands of the few.

There is little doubt that many police lives could be saved by turning America into a police state, where civilians are forcefully disarmed (except for loyal Party members of course), and police can do more or less whatever they want to preserve order and enforce the law.  But that isn't how we want to live in America.  Ben Franklin warned us about what we would end up with if we traded liberty for security.  And thankfully, enough of us understand that dynamic that the trade is not likely to be made, at least when it comes to our right to be armed.

It might also be pointed out that it's the height of hypocrisy for liberal bigots to talk about taking away or severely restricting a Constitutional right to supposedly save the lives of police officers, in light of the hate campaigns the liberal cult has been waging against police officers.  The lie this thread is about can be refuted well enough, but the best response might be to just laugh in the face of such blatant hypocrisy.  If they want to make police safer, they might try letting up on the hate campaigns. 
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