Ammunition & Hand Loading > Cartridge and Shotshell reloading
Bullet Brands for pistol shooting...
JTH:
This post is just some commentary on reloading 9mm for shooting practice and competition. If you don't care about pistols, and don't shoot 9mm, this may not be anything worth reading. :)
I shoot a fairly hefty amount of 9mm each year (generally over 20,000 rounds) which means that I spend quite a bit on bullets. In the past, I've used Montana Gold 124gr CMJs with excellent results, but lately I've had a number of people suggest trying Xtreme bullets and Blue Bullets.
MG CMJ are jacketed, Xtreme are plated, and Blue Bullets are coated-lead bullets, and in that order, are increasingly cheaper. In general (stereotypically) plated bullets are less accurate than jacketed, and coated-lead bullets both smoke a lot more and leave significant lead residue in barrels, so in the past I've pretty much stayed away from both.
However, at my volume of shooting, assuming I'm shooting approximately 20,000 rounds a year, this will cost me for bullets:
MG: $2160 for 22500
Xtreme: $1710 for 22500
Blue Bullets: $1610 for 25200
...in other words, either one of the other two bullets would give me a significant savings over Montana Gold, IF they were as reliable and accurate. (MG is about 9.6 cents per round, Xtreme about 7.6, and BB about 6.4. That adds up quickly.)
So I decided to do some comparisons. I already have quite a bit of data for Montana Gold, so I ordered some Xtreme and Blue Bullets and got some reloaded.
In general, for all three cases I'm loading 124gr RN (BB: 125 gr RN) to an OAL of 1.12. Initially, I loaded all at 5.0gr of WSF powder.
Testing day 1:
I used the MG rounds as calibrations for my chrono---we know that under different lighting conditions chronos will read differently unless you have a light box (I don't) but over the last 4 years I've been consistently getting 134 powder factor out of my MG loads at all major matches, so I took the velocities as reported from the chrono and normalized them based on the MG load as 134 PF.
I also shot groups at 15 yards. My group shooting actually kinda sucks, but I tend to be consistent in my suckage, so that I can at least get reasonable comparisons between loads.
Remember: I've been using MG bullets with good results for several years.
Chrono results:
MG: 134 PF (duh), 2.5 standard deviation, min 130, max 137
Xtreme: 125.5 PF, 3.4 StDev, min 121.0, max 131.1
BB: 137.2 PF, 1.1 StDev, min 135.5, max 138.6
Accuracy results:
Comparison-wise, the BB groups were approximately 2/3 the size of the MG rounds, even when shooting fairly rapidly. (Which was a surprise, since the higher power factor made for a noticeably different recoil impulse.)
The Xtreme bullets, on the other hand, were acting extremely strange---actually keyholing at 15 yards. I was shooting at a bullseye target on an 8.5x11 piece of paper, and this is what I got:
...yes, that is actually completely off the paper. And yes, there were shots on the paper and off to the other side of the paper also.
And no my group shooting does not suck that much---for 15 yards, generally within a couple of inches. Being off the bullseye is odd, much less off the paper.
So: BB were both more accurate and more consistent than my standard MG loads (smaller groups, and half the standard deviation in velocity ranges). Xtreme...far poorer in both. (Which is very strange, as I have a number of friends who shoot Xtreme bullets with excellent results.)
Traded from the stock Glock barrel to a KKM barrel---MG groups sizes the same, Xtreme STILL keyholing all over the place, BB group sizes still 2/3 the size of MG rounds. MG and BB both hitting about 2 inches higher than out of the Glock barrel. VERY ODD that the Xtreme bullets were acting this way.
Note: I chronoed with the BB rounds that passed the case gauge. However, during group shooting I used bullets that did NOT pass case gauge. (I case gauge all my 9mm. If it passes, I'll shoot it in matches. If it fails, I'll use it for practice only.) No jams, malfunctions, or issues with BB. Several Xtreme did not cycle correctly even though I only used rounds that had passed the case gauge.
At the end, I loaded up a mag of the BB and shot them SHO and WHO with the weakest, most out-of-line, pathetic excuse for a grip that I could. No jams or malfunctions, no feeding issues at all.
Shot quite a few more of all types after, finishing with about 50 more BB. Checked the barrel---absolutely no leading residue at all, far as I can tell. Looked (and brushed out) no differently than when I shoot MG. No noticeable smoke while shooting either.
More to follow...
JTH:
Testing, Day 2:
So I went back out to the range today with a different version of the Blue Bullets loads (lowered the powder to 4.8 gr of WSF, don't really need 137-143 PF for minor).
1) It was gorgeous out. Seriously. Why didn't I bring more ammo so I could stay out longer? What was I thinking?
2) Shot my MG loads (which I know exactly what power factor they consistently have as a calibration) alternating with the new BB loads both across chrono and for group. Standard deviation on BB loads are still about 1/2 to 2/3 that of the MG loads. Group size for BB still about 2/3 that of MG loads.
3) Shot a set of MG loads for calibration across chrono and then shot a set of BB loads where I KNEW the bullet was 125+ gr. PF for all shots was between 134.4 and 136, so I can drop the powder even more (I like 133-134 PF---only a small amount of recoil and a comfortable cushion to make chrono at major matches). Still cycles the gun holding it as badly as possible SHO and WHO.
4) Found out that when it gets cold, if you have haven't done anything about the residue buildup on your slide rails with no oil since last August, it doesn't want to cycle properly. Ahem.
5) Shot BB and Xtreme at 15 yards. BB were rapid controlled pairs from low ready, Xtreme were single shots, mid-range speed, starting on target in one string. This is what happened:
That's just ridiculous.
6) There is only ONE thing that is an issue with the Blue Bullets, and that is weight variability. Given random samples of 10 bullets, weights will range from 123.3 to 126.9 grains. That's an issue. I'm planning on (bleh!) sitting there and separating my bullets into 125+ and <125 weight bins, and using the 125+ bin for major matches. I'm not really worried about making PF on any of them (my lowest chrono velocity with the lowest bullet weight I've measured will still make minor PF easily) but I do NOT like even remotely taking chances. So, I'll shoot the 125+ bin for majors.
I'll check these more over time, and I'm planning on dropping the charge probably another 0.1 of a grain (perhaps both 0.1 and 0.2, and comparing them) and then shooting some matches. Also, need to test them at 25, 35, and 50 yards.
But so far....the Blue Bullets seem to be a solid choice for reloading.
Xtreme---don't know what is up with those. I have a number of friends who use them with no problems. And I've used them in the past with no issues, though those were 147gr bullets. I'm going to have a couple of other people shoot the Xtreme rounds through their guns to see what happens. It should be interesting, since I got keyholing at 15 yards from both a Glock barrel and a KKM barrel.
shooter:
did you mike the O.D. of the Xtreme bullets? maybe they are a bit undersized, only reason I know for key holing , with a good barrel
JTH:
--- Quote from: shooter on January 31, 2016, 05:10:25 PM ---did you mike the O.D. of the Xtreme bullets? maybe they are a bit undersized, only reason I know for key holing , with a good barrel
--- End quote ---
Supposed to be .355 for MG, Xtreme, and BB. For and MG and BB, .355 is what I get out of a random sample of 10. For Xtreme---not a single one was above .351, with most being .350.
That's a pretty big problem. Good call. I've got a couple of friends who shoot Xtreme checking their bullets to see if this is common, or I got a bad batch. Thanks for the suggestion!
Someone else also asked about crimp, and if the plating was being scraped off---pulled a couple of bullet, and the answer is no for that one.
shooter:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on January 31, 2016, 05:30:55 PM ---Supposed to be .355 for MG, Xtreme, and BB. For and MG and BB, .355 is what I get out of a random sample of 10. For Xtreme---not a single one was above .351, with most being .350.
That's a pretty big problem. Good call. I've got a couple of friends who shoot Xtreme checking their bullets to see if this is common, or I got a bad batch. Thanks for the suggestion!
Someone else also asked about crimp, and if the plating was being scraped off---pulled a couple of bullet, and the answer is no for that one.
--- End quote ---
.355 is for 380. I size my 9mm at .356.
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