Wanted: Sage Advice from the CHP Gurus....

[Chris Z]

The reason for 28-1212 is to prosecute the four gang bangers riding around in a car, they get pulled over and cop finds a gun under the seat. Amazingly none of the four gang bangers new that this gun was in the car. 28-1212 is then used to prosecute all of them for the carrying a concealed weapon charge.

I'll go out on a limb here and say..... Nobody is going to get arrested because they have their wife or kid in the car and a gun in the glove compartment......

Now, if you wife is not a CHP holder and there is a gun in the glove box...... And your wife is drunk and belligerent, throwing beer bottles at passing cars..... And doing otherwise completely stupid things, would it be possible the Police charge her with CCW using that 28-1212? Possibly

[Les]

I figured it was intentionally vague for a reason. When are you holding your next legal aspects class?

[Dan W]

This anti gang law was written before any legal way to CCW existed. My understanding is that it is applied to any unclaimed weapons and would only apply to illegally possessed weapons by persons who do not have a permission slip.

I wish I could recall just where I found that information so it may or may not be accurate and IANAL. I agree that the statutes language is very troubling, and in light of today's reality of legal CCW may have unintended consequences if the letter of the law is strictly adhered to.

[Hondo]

Thanks for all the info.     Here's another question:   Same 'loaded' G27 in the same locked steel box under the passenger seat (because it won't fit under the driver's seat).  I go to my brother's house and he talks me into a beer.  I drive home and don't signal a turn and get stopped.   I inform that I have a CHP and where the gun is.......did I violate the 'no alcohol'  while 'carrying' ??   

[JTH]

Thanks for all the info.     Here's another question:   Same 'loaded' G27 in the same locked steel box under the passenger seat (because it won't fit under the driver's seat).  I go to my brother's house and he talks me into a beer.  I drive home and don't signal a turn and get stopped.   I inform that I have a CHP and where the gun is.......did I violate the 'no alcohol'  while 'carrying' ??   

Same issue as before.  The "loaded but not on your person, concealed but in a locked case" thing means it is a grey area....so it depends.

That's not a question that the law is clear on, and there is no case law regarding it.  As such, it is a question that will ONLY be answered in court...and you don't want to be the test case.

If it IS decided that it is a concealed weapon for which you are responsible, and the officer determines that is alcohol on your breath and administers a test....then yes, you are going to have a problem.  (In court, but nonetheless a problem.)

In a situation like that, if you DO have a drink, unload the gun, have no ammunition in the locked case, and have the locked case not within your arms reach.  Given that, it would then fall (arguably, but again, our laws are not clear about much on this topic) in the "transportation" mode, not a "concealed carry" mode, and you wouldn't be breaking any law.

For me personally, if there is a loaded gun in the car, it is on my person.  (I see no reason to have a loaded gun in the car where I can't get to it, unless I'm locking it in the car when I am forced to go into a place where it isn't legal to carry.)  If the gun isn't on my person and I'm in the car, it is unloaded and locked without ammunition in the case.

[SemperFiGuy]

You could simply convert to Open Carry, even with the alcohol involvement, just by placing the handgun in a location in the automobile where it is not fully covered nor hidden from plain sight.   Doing so would finesse the concealed carry and alcohol issues.   And the handgun would still be available for self-defense.

Of course, doing so would immediately shift the situation to an entirely new paradigm and possibly involve certain other issues, some of them perhaps unpleasant.

And a Prudent Person might even suggest that you consider the use of the trunk compartment on your automobile.   Unloaded/cased/locked, yada-yada-yada...........

Even then, it's ever a sound practice to say, "Officer, I DO/DO NOT have a concealed handgun on my person."

FWIW,

sfg

[Chris Z]

I figured it was intentionally vague for a reason. When are you holding your next legal aspects class?

Please shoot me an email chris@neccwtraining.com and I will notify you when another is scheduled


Thanks!

[Les]

Please shoot me an email chris@neccwtraining.com and I will notify you when another is scheduled


Thanks!

Done.