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Nebraska State CCW Course…
JTH:
I wrote, regarding someone's statement that they didn't think that everyone should be carrying a concealed weapon:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido ---Many people aren't ready for the responsibility, don't want it, or have made conscious choices about what they can live with in terms of how they will act. (Whether they are realistic or not is separate from the decisions they have made currently.)
--- End quote ---
To which it was replied:
--- Quote from: SS_N_NE on May 04, 2016, 08:28:51 PM ---To choose their own life or death?
--- End quote ---
I'm thinking that given the rest of what you wrote, you either didn't read what I wrote, or you were replying to the person before me (that I was replying to in the first place.)
Considering that later I said:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido ---That, however, I disagree with strongly---because I don't think people should have to "earn" the right to defend themselves.
{snip}
The way I think about it is this:
1) Everyone has the right to self-defense.
2) If you have the right to self-defense, then you have a right to the most effective tools for self-defense.
--- End quote ---
I'll note that "carrying a concealed weapon" and "choosing their own life and death" are not the same thing. Matter of fact, they aren't even remotely the same thing.
My comments were specific: There ARE people out there who are unprepared to accept the responsibility that comes with carrying a concealed firearm. Similarly, there ARE people who are completely against the idea. There are others who have made decisions for themselves that there are lines they won't cross (whether I agree with them or not has no bearing on that, nor whether or not I think they'd change their mind when in a real self-defense situation).
The ability to defend oneself starts in the mind, not the inanimate object. And there are plenty of people out there who do not have the mindset needed for it.
That is separate from whether or not they should have access to the means, or the opportunity to carry the tools, if they decide differently. As I said:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido ---1) Everyone has the right to self-defense.
2) If you have the right to self-defense, then you have a right to the most effective tools for self-defense.
--- End quote ---
S_N_NE also said:
--- Quote ---Survival is a natural right...self-defense aids survival.
No one should determine your right to survival except you. Hammer-fist, pointy stick or gun, what difference does it make how you survive? The threat you determined has attempted to end your survival has been eliminated. You survive.
--- End quote ---
Actually, that rather supports my point. Because plenty of people out there DON'T think about self-defense and what it means. Their choice is counter-survival.
That's their choice, though. Some people don't want to think about it, don't want to prepare to keep themselves and their loved ones safe, and don't do anything about it.
That is separate from whether or not they should have the ability and access to the tools necessary should they decide differently.
--- Quote ---The problem comes from "I think" since that always seems to lead to "there should be a law".
--- End quote ---
I'm curious where, in my post, you found something like that. (I note that personally, I'm all in favor of thinking. :) )
--- Quote ---If a person wants to enhance their survival, then they should train with what ever tools they hope will assist their survival. Carrying a weapon does not ensure survival. Even being well trained with a weapon does not ensure survival.
--- End quote ---
True. The important point again is "IF a person wants to enhance their survival" --- some people are uninterested in taking the responsibility for their own survival and either through personal choices directly, or because they've been convinced that it is someone else's job, instead choose to NOT enhance their survival.
--- Quote ---My point: We don't need the CCW. We don't need the training classes. We don't need more laws. There are enough law to deal with pretty much everything already. If someone wants to enhance their survival with a weapon...then they should seek training. But, the laws, rules, regulations and "people should" snobbery should all go away. Having State law, training and everything else doesn't change a thing in a legitimate case of survival.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately, in this state, currently you DO need those. Whether that is "right" or not is a separate issue---the point of the OP was simple in that since in Nebraska you DO have to take an official class following the official curriculum with the official qualification, if your instructor does NOT do those things it is possible that your class certificate might be invalid, which means not having the ability (currently, in this state) to get a concealed handgun permit.
Now, if you wanted to start a thread about how constitutional carry should be the law, I'd completely agree with you. But...right now the law in Nebraska is that you need the official course to get the permit.
And if your instructor doesn't teach the class correctly, or doesn't run the firearms qualification correctly, then you might not be able to get the permit. So check your instructor carefully before taking the class.
Lorimor:
--- Quote from: Captdad17 on May 02, 2016, 05:45:26 AM ---I recently completed my training and was very impressed. Not just with what was taught about safety, fundamentals, and legal ramifications, but everything else that goes into carrying a concealed weapon.
<climbs on soapbox>
I don't think everyone should be carrying a concealed weapon. Don't get me wrong, I know it's our right and boneheaded felons and wife-beaters out there lose that right, but there are some people, law-abiding people, that do more harm than good. We've all heard the stories about the guy who uses his weapon to defend his property or the show-off who fires a shot into the wall as he's showing his buddy his new piece. I feel that carrying is something that has to be earned, by demonstrating you're willing to train, to learn, to accept the consequences of what will happen to you and your family if you ever encounter a situation where deadly force is required and you choose to use it. It's a responsibility that's not to be taken lightly and so far, I've been impressed with the members of this forum as I have not gotten the impression to the contrary.
<climbs down from soapbox>
The training that everyone gets when carrying concealed should make them stop and think about what they are getting themselves into. As a prior military cop, I know it all too well. I've seen it first hand. Expect to be arrested, expect to lose your weapon, expect to go through a living hell. If you think then when you shoot the bad guy, you'll find yourself wrapped in a comfy blanket in the back of an ambulance sipping hot coffee while the cops around you are trying to console you, you need to quit watching TV. The real world isn't like that.
There is no "fast track" as the article that jthhapkido posted pointed out. In fact, an 8-hour class doesn't even do it justice. Be prepared to commit, to train, to study, and realize that now that you carry a concealed weapon, your life with change forever. You are now a sheepdog. If you can't handle that, it's ok to be a sheep.
--- End quote ---
I am in agreement with you with one exception. I am better described as a porcupine in the world of self-defense.
I am not a sheep, a wolf or a sheepdog. I'm not looking to be prey. I'm not looking to prey upon others and I'm not in the business of protecting the flock. :)
Lorimor:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on May 05, 2016, 06:21:00 AM ---
I'm curious where, in my post, you found something like that. (I note that personally, I'm all in favor of thinking. :) )
--- End quote ---
And I salute you for your continued efforts to get the rest of us to think. :)
Dan W:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on May 05, 2016, 06:21:00 AM ---Unfortunately, in this state, currently you DO need those. Whether that is "right" or not is a separate issue---the point of the OP was simple in that since in Nebraska you DO have to take an official class following the official curriculum with the official qualification
--- End quote ---
Let's not forget that 28-1202 is also still a valid law...
--- Quote ---28-1202.
Carrying concealed weapon; penalty; affirmative defense.
(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.
(b) It is an affirmative defense that the defendant was engaged in any lawful business, calling, or employment at the time he or she was carrying any weapon or weapons and the circumstances in which such person was placed at the time were such as to justify a prudent person in carrying the weapon or weapons for the defense of his or her person, property, or family.
(2) This section does not apply to a person who is the holder of a valid permit issued under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act if the concealed weapon the defendant is carrying is a handgun.
(3) Carrying a concealed weapon is a Class I misdemeanor.
(4) In the case of a second or subsequent conviction under this section, carrying a concealed weapon is a Class IV felony.
Source
Laws 1977, LB 38, § 234;
Laws 1984, LB 1095, § 1;
Laws 2006, LB 454, § 22;
Laws 2009, LB63, § 10.
--- End quote ---
Although is comes with considerable legal difficulties, it is still legal under the right circumstances to CCW without a permit in Nebraska
JTH:
--- Quote from: Dan W on May 05, 2016, 08:12:01 AM --- Let's not forget that 28-1202 is also still a valid law...
Although is comes with considerable legal difficulties, it is still legal under the right circumstances to CCW without a permit in Nebraska
--- End quote ---
Very true, and a good point.
The main problems with it (going back to the issue that our state constitution was deliberately amended so that constitutional carry was SUPPOSED to be the law) is that permit-less carry is only an affirmative defense, and that means that it will be up to the officer at the time to start the process of determining how much you are going to have to spend in legal fees to "prove" your right to self-defense. (I completely detest the idea of affirmative defense with regard to something that is legal according to our state constitution.)
Not to mention the fact that in court, you KNOW someone is going to bring up "since this state HAS a permit system, why didn't you just try to be legal that way" argument even though that argument is stupid and makes no sense---but might be convincing to a jury.
So I think your comment of "Although is comes with considerable legal difficulties" is spot-on, and is also a fairly damning indictment of our state legal system, given our constitution.
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