Reloading problems

[Kendahl]

I began reloading .45 ACP cartridges thirty years ago. The components were Unique powder, Winchester large pistol primers and 200 grain LSWC bullets cast by a member of the club to which I then belonged. The reloads worked reliably in my Gold Cup. I lost interest after a few years and put everything away including completed reloads and left over components. I recently regained my interest in shooting and have used up the reloads and components except for some left over powder. Even after thirty years on a shelf, both the old reloads and new ones made with the left over components worked well. I am now having problems with new reloads made with recently purchased bullets and primers.

The new bullets are Hornady 200 grain LSWCs. They often fail to feed with the action closing on a cartridge sitting nose up at a 45 degree angle. I noticed that the new bullets are stubbier than the old ones. Changing the seating depth hasn't helped. Cabela's stocks Berry's Preferred Plated Pistol Bullets, anything from 185 to 230 grains in various shapes. They aren't quite as cheap as the LSWCs but the round nosed ones should feed more reliably. Are there any problems with plated bullets? I have been told by one person that the plating comes off and fouls the barrel. Note that I load to around 800 fps to minimize recoil. I don't know what his velocities were.

My other problem is a frequent failure to ignite with the new Winchester primers. They are not hangfires that go off if I wait a bit. So far I have been able to get all the failures to fire after a second or third strike. Because of these problems I have been using factory 230 grain round nose FMJ ammunition in matches. With that ammunition, every cartridge fires on the first strike. Since the problem appeared when I began using the new primers, I am inclined to blame them rather than the gun especially since it is reliable with factory ammuntion. I wonder if Winchester primers are harder now than they were thirty years ago. Would it help to switch to a different brand of primer? If so, which one?

Very recently, I have begun having problems with the crushed walnut shells in the tumbler I use to clean cartridge cases. The cases used to come out shining brightly. Now they come out coated in red dust that is nearly impossible to wipe off. I tried to get rid of any dust in the tumbling media by pouring it from one container to another outdoors in a stiff breeze. I didn't see any dust blowing away and it hasn't helped. Is the media just worn out? Cabela's stocks Lyman corn cob media. MidwayUSA stocks that and walnut shells. Is one better than the other?

Thanks in advance for advice.

[shooter]

 First, your media,   Ive done this for over 40 years, just give it a squirt of barbcue lighter fluid. sounds strange but it really does work, altho,   if the media is real old. you just may need new. its cheap.

  sounds like you got a batch of hard primers, 

   I the Gold Cup the same one you shot 30 years ago? have you ever put new springs in it? maybe they took a set and arnt as strong.

[SemperFiGuy]

Some random thoughts in response, for your consideration:

Plated BerrysBullets

I've used them exclusively for some time in .38SPCL, 9mm, .40S&SW, and 357SIG.   I’ve used various shapes:   RN, DEWC, Truncated Cone, etc.  They all are of good quality.   In fact, due to their decent quality and low cost when bought in bulk, BBs are all that I use anymore for pistol bullets.

They are not to be shot faster than 1200FPS, which should not ever be a problem in your .45ACP handgun at 800FPS.   

So far as I can tell, no more copper is deposited in my pistol bores with these BerrysBullets than with any other copper jacketed bullet.   And any copper deposits are readily removed w/Shooter Choice or any other copper remover.   And it’s a heckuva lot easier to remove copper fouling than it is to remove lead fouling deposited by cast boolits.

The only problem ever w/BerrysBullets has been when the UPS Man sez, “Fer cryin’ out loud, what’s in these boxes??   Feels like a lead weight!!!!”

Primer Problems

Could be any/all of these items:

>Hard primers (as Shooter sez)
>Old primers   (although I’ve used 40+ year-old primers w/no problems)
>Contaminated primers   (oil, moisture, and other stuff will degrade them)
>Deep seated primers

>Weak hammer spring
>Junk in the firing pin channel  (especially if channel was ever oiled)
>Defective firing pin   (rare, but it happens)
>Slide doesn't go completely into battery  (grit, caked powder residue, whatever)


After waiting out a possible hangfire, I always re-shoot misfired rounds.   They almost always go off the second time around.   Go figger.

Tumbling Media

>Corncob media are generally shinier and purtier.
>Walnut media are generally faster.
>Both of the above work just fine.
>So does acid washing.   ‘Cept then you gotta dry the cases.    Summer:  Sun   Winter:   Wife’s hair dryer.   Wait till she’s gone to the store.   Then deny ever using it.   She’ll know.)   Birchwood Casey makes a good acid concentrate.
>Ultrasonic cleaning.    Hornady Magnum U/S device is a good choice.

My suggestion here is same as Shooter’s:    Dump any and all old media; get new stuff.   It’s dirt cheap.   Cheaper in the pet department (kitty litter) at WallyWorld than at the gunstore.


Feed Problems

No EZ solution here.   Just gotta try different bullet combos and OALs until the problem is solved.   Be sure to check your mags for cartridge feeding orientation.


Summary

Welcome back to the wunnerful world of reloading and handgun shooting.   Now…….watch the Forum for IDPA, USPSA, and Rock Your Glock events.


sfg

[Kendahl]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The Berry's bullets look like the simplest solution to my feeding problems. The 185 grain HBRN should feed as well as 230 grain round nose FMJ while giving me lighter recoil.

A batch of hard primers seems the most likely answer since the gun is reliable with factory ammunition. (What's funny is that it's Winchester ammunition which one would expect contains Winchester primers.)

I once looked at an S&W .357 magnum that had a very easy double action trigger pull because the spring had been lightened. The seller warned me that I might have problems with primers. I have a faint recollection that he mentioned CCI primers but not whether he thought they were to be used or to be avoided.

Since we are owned by three cats, litter is always available. I just have to steal some before it gets into the litter box.

[SemperFiGuy]

Since we are owned by three cats, litter is always available.

OK…………but you may wish to check the cat litter bag to ensure that it’s actually walnut or corncob litter and isn’t clay cat litter.


And...........

Federal primers are generally considered to be more “sensitive”, to the extent that Richard Lee of Lee Precision has always said, in effect, Don’t use Federal primers in Lee hand-priming tools.   That is, if you don't want them to blow up all at once, which I've never seen, but I hear can be exciting.

I did see a blown primer column once.   Winchester WSPs.


Reloading's fun.   However, you can go one posting down and buy those 1700 .45ACPs in Kearney and not have to mess with it.


sfg

[Kendahl]

……but you may wish to check the cat litter bag to ensure that it’s actually walnut or corncob litter and isn’t clay cat litter.

Thanks for the warning. The stuff we buy is clay. I needed an excuse to drop by Guns Unlimited anyway.

I insert primers by hand with a Lee Auto-Prime. I doubt that I can exert enough force with it to set one off. My reloading is small scale, 50 or 100 rounds in a batch. I use a single stage RCBS press and have to switch dies between stages. The closest I get to "automation" is a powder measure instead of weighing each charge. Even then, I check every tenth charge to verify that the powder measure hasn't changed.

As far as the 1700 rounds go, I already have so much empty .45 brass that it doesn't bother me to lose some at the range. In addition, I have been looking at 9 mm pistols for several months and am close to buying a Browning Hi Power. Steel construction so it's heavy enough to cut down on recoil. Fits my hand as well or better than anything else. Good trigger even with the magazine disconnect. Then, I can begin to accumulate 9 mm brass.

[JTH]

The new bullets are Hornady 200 grain LSWCs. They often fail to feed with the action closing on a cartridge sitting nose up at a 45 degree angle. I noticed that the new bullets are stubbier than the old ones. Changing the seating depth hasn't helped. Cabela's stocks Berry's Preferred Plated Pistol Bullets, anything from 185 to 230 grains in various shapes. They aren't quite as cheap as the LSWCs but the round nosed ones should feed more reliably.

Have you checked your magazine springs?  More importantly, have you ever replaced your magazine springs?  (And your recoil spring, as someone else said?) 

Without seeing the issue, it SOUNDS like a combination of mag spring not pushing the top bullet into the right position in time for the slide, AND the slide not having enough umph to drive it forward anyway.  (Which, I'll note, is a perennial problem with many 1911s.  Finding magazines that are reliable with a particular firearm is....an issue.  And then keeping them running is another issue.)

When the bullet is stopped, is the case contacting the throat?  Or the bullet itself?

(How much crimp are you putting on the case at the end?  Is it still flared slightly?)

Note:  Some 1911s just don't like some bullet shapes, and won't feed them.  It really might just be that.  But...springs are often the culprit for many issues.

Are there any problems with plated bullets? I have been told by one person that the plating comes off and fouls the barrel. Note that I load to around 800 fps to minimize recoil. I don't know what his velocities were.

As SFG said, you have to be driving plated bullets pretty briskly to have issues with the plating, and in .45, you simply aren't going to see it at all.  No problems there.

My other problem is a frequent failure to ignite with the new Winchester primers. They are not hangfires that go off if I wait a bit. So far I have been able to get all the failures to fire after a second or third strike. Because of these problems I have been using factory 230 grain round nose FMJ ammunition in matches. With that ammunition, every cartridge fires on the first strike. Since the problem appeared when I began using the new primers, I am inclined to blame them rather than the gun especially since it is reliable with factory ammuntion. I wonder if Winchester primers are harder now than they were thirty years ago. Would it help to switch to a different brand of primer? If so, which one?

I use Winchester primers pretty much exclusively.  It would surprise me extremely to find that they are harder to ignite and would cause this sort of problem.  Sure, it might be from a bad lot, but...since you are only having problems with your reloads, and not factory ammunition with the same primers, my guess would be something about the primer depth is an issue---particularly since you can get them to light on the second strike.  First strike is light due to high primers, but it drives the primer down a bit, second strike lights them off just fine....this is pretty common.

Doesn't mean that IS the problem, but I'd certainly check that out. 

Federal primers are pretty much the softest out there, if you need to switch.   

Do you check for high primers at the end of the reloading process?  How deeply do you seat your primers?

[Kendahl]

All the springs are ancient. I bought two new magazines last year. Their springs are noticeably stronger. I wondered if springs could be the problem but the gun still functions reliably with Winchester factory ammunition -- both 230 and 185 grain FMJ. My problems began when I ran out of 30-year-old bullets and primers.

The new bullets are Hornady part number 12108. They are shorter and fatter than the old ones. Hornady also makes 12208 which looks more like the old ones. Unfortunately, all I can find locally is 12108. Cabela's claims to stock round nose 230 and 185 grain Berry's bullets. Because of their shape I have high hopes that they will feed reliably.

The ignition problems began when I began using the new primers. This evening, I found a partial box of the old ones. I will test them for reliability.

I use a Lee AutoPrime to insert primers and squeeze the handle until the primer bottoms out in the case. Seating depth could be an issue if deposits in the primer pocket keep the primer from going in all the way. So far, the tumbler is all I have been using to clean cases. That appears to be sufficient with once- or twice-fired cases. Many of mine have been reloaded several times. With my light loads, they last almost indefinitely. I need to buy a primer pocket cleaning tool.

Today, I bought a jug of walnut shell tumbling medium. The old medium appears to have been the problem since the cases are coming out bright and shiny again. The instructions on the jug say that the medium itself never wears out but that it's necessary to add brass polish from time to time.

[shooter]

The new bullets are Hornady part number 12108. They are shorter and fatter than the old ones

  they cant be fatter. they have to be from .451 to .452,  if there fatter, there is your problem,

    but I think you need to respring your pistol,

[noylj]

0.454" bullets work just fine in all my .45 Autos. For reference, SAAMI spec for .45 Auto Match loads with SWC bullets shows 0.452" for jacketed and 0.453" for lead, and those are specified not for YOUR gun, but to work in ALL guns. The reloader just has to be sure it works in a particular gun.
Do you check that all primers are seated just below flush by running a finger over them? "Proud" primers are often just seated by the firing pin and a second strike will ignite them. This sounds like your problem.
If you forget about shiny, which doesn't do you any good other than look pretty, you would just use 20/40 corn.
Red "stuff" often indicates the media has jeweler's rouge in it to further polish the cases. So, unless you really want to run abrasive (which is a LOT harder than brass) through your chamber, it needs to be wiped off.

>The new bullets are Hornady 200 grain LSWCs. They often fail to feed with the action closing on a cartridge sitting nose up at a 45 degree angle. I noticed that the new bullets are stubbier than the old ones.

Well, having the rounds sitting nose up when fed is almost always a sign that the COL is too short. If they jammed against the feed ramp, that is almost always a sign the COL is too long.
So, first thing is to load a couple of inert dummy rounds with a longer COL and see if they feed and chamber.
Since you imply you have tried this already, the magazine(s) may not be releasing the short rounds soon enough to feed well. In general, for SWCs, you need the magazine lips to be fully open before the cartridge has traveled horizontally half the way down the magazine when feeding.
I find that all my 1911s feed empty cases just fine. All L-SWCs are loaded to the same shoulder-to-case head dimension so the shoulder just barely misses the lede/rifling (0.925-0.930" shoulder-to-case head). In the case of the Hornady L-C/T bullet, this represents a COL of 1.205".
Did you establish the COL by loading a couple of inert dummy rounds (no  primers or powder at the press) and adjust COL in increments until the round(s) all fed from the magazine and chambered? If not, start doing so and ignore any COL in a manual. Your gun (and, generally, your bullets either) are not the same as the manual.
Plated: just my experience, but if you don't mind increasing the group size at 25 yards by 1.5-2", they work fine. I can say that plated SWCs gave me 5-12" groups at 25 yards, so I still have a bunch that I use as weights to keep my tumbler from moving.

[Kendahl]

My reloading problems appear to be solved. As jthhapkido suggested, the ignition problem was caused by high primers. The culprit was my old Lee Auto-Prime. It was made of pot metal and had developed a crack. Squeezing the handle opened up the crack instead of fully seating the primer. I now have a Hornady priming tool.

As was recommended, I replaced the recoil spring and the springs in my old magazines. The stubby 200 grain LSWCs are feeding reliably again.

However, I think I will standardize on Berry's plated 185 grain HBRN bullets. They feed as well as factory FMJ ball ammunition when loaded to the same overall length and recoil is much lower. I wondered if a 16 pound recoil spring would be too strong for my light loads but it hasn't been a problem. If plated bullets are less accurate than LSWC or FMJ RN bullets, I can't shoot small enough groups to tell.

My search for a 9 mm pistol is ended. On Friday, I picked up a ported S&W M&P 9L from Guns Unlimited. Having a Nebraska CHP saved me the wait for the store to do a NICS check. Yet another reason to get your CHP. Now, I need to find a holster.

I'm nearing the end of my supply of Unique powder. One of Unique's good points is that my old Lyman book shows loads with it for .38 special, .357 magnum, 9 mm and .45 ACP. Another is that you use enough of it that it's easy to spot a double charge. Its principal drawback is that it leaves a great deal of soot in the gun. Is there a cleaner alternative with the same good points? Except for .357, all of my loads would be fairly light.

[unfy]

I still have a fair amount of my unique. I like it other than how smokey it can be.

its been a great all round powder for getting used to reloading diff rounds, but I think I'll go with some less "generic" next go around. Win 231, or auto comp comes to mind. Since yes I will be reloading, I'll go ahead and keep several bottles of powder for specific needs.

[Gunscribe]

Unique used to be one of the dirtier powders. More years ago than I care to remember they changed the formula for a more cleaner burning product. It would be wise to check current reloading data if you buy new Unique.

I use the Berry's 185 HBRN for my 45 caliber Glocks. The one thing to remember and you mentioned it yourself; These 185 grain bullets must be loaded to the COL for a 230 bullet.

Winchester primers are suppose to be about the softest primer made. I had to use them in my light spring cowboy action revolvers for reliable ignition.

The Gold Cup was Colts answer to the modifications many of us were making to the standard Colt 1911 back in the day i.e. Smith & Wesson sights etc.. The Gold Cup was introduced as a competition firearm to tighter tolerances than standard 1911's specifically for the 230 grain FMJ Hardball. Like a lot of 1911's they need a modicum of gunsmithing to reliably feed anything else, especially the flying ashtrays (Hollow Points) that some companies market today.