Mysteries of the 357

[DenmanShooter]

       Many police of the 20th Century used to pack revolvers chambered for the .38 Special cartridge.   The .38 Special designation was a holdover from previous caliber designations (38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt)  as the diameter of .38 is actually the diameter of the case rather than the bullet.  The bullet being .357 in diameter.  Which means it should have been called the .357 in the first place but conventional naming customs caused it to be called the .38 Special. 

   As certain police departments began encountering dangerous criminals carrying superior fire power, the .38 Special began to lose favor and was looked upon as a weak round.  John Browning’s .45 caliber Colt 1911 had been in production for many years and had an excellent track record but, for the most part, the civilian police agencies opted instead for the .357 Magnum revolver to replace their .38 Specials. 

   It soon became clear the extra power of the .357 was having a negative effect on the marksmanship scores of police since rarely do police spend much time honing their shooting skills.  The .357 Magnum recoil paired with the heavier frame necessary for the cartridge was just a bit too much for most officers.

   Enter the 9MM.  As police agencies began transitioning to semi auto side arms the most ubiquitous caliber became the 9MM Parabellum or 9MM Luger which had been introduced back in 1902.  The 9MM bullet diameter just happens to be .356 and also uses a case approximately .38 of an inch in outside diameter (actually tapering from .391 to .381).  But two years earlier the 38 Super Auto was introduced which used the same .356 diameter bullet but in a case about 25% longer then the Luger.

   In the mix is also the .380 Auto, a short version of the 9MM Luger called the 9MM Kurtz but it has only a .374 case diameter.  This is especially suited to concealment although it lacks the “punch” of its larger siblings.

   With calibers ranging from the .22 to the .45 and even larger, why does the .38 or rather the .356/.357 diameter bullet continue to see so much success?  What makes the .357 such a magical number?

   I argue it has to do with a ratio of cost in weight and efficiency of velocity to powder charge to the end effect of terminal ballistics which makes the “.38” caliber such a persistent winner for over a century.    While the .45 packs a heck of a wallop, it tasks the operator with a heavy recoil as well as a disadvantage in number of rounds per pound of weight carried.  Smaller calibers, while maintaining some impressive numbers in velocity and carrying capacity, present a smaller cross section on target and therefore lose the energy transferring edge of velocity over their larger cousins.

Just a few loads for comparison…

38 Special 110 Grain XTP max load 1308 FPS
9 MM 115 Grain XTP max load 1305 FPS
357 Magnum 158 Grain XTP max load 1686 FPS

I don’t know what the future holds but I am willing to bet the thirty something caliber will be around and viable for a long time and that mid thirty caliber .356/.357 will be there also.

What do you think?

[ILoveCats]

It's a decent "all-around" cartridge that I have in fact toted "all around" the world. And if I could only have one handgun I guess this would be it. In fact it was not practical for me to have more than one personal handgun when my agency shipped me from station to station (and even that involved way too much paperwork and written testimonials and whatnot) so my one handgun was a Colt King Cobra. Hiking and hunting and birdwatching, the meanest critters I ever felt compelled to carry it for were hyena and snakes and I suppose it was "good enough" size for that. Living out in Virginia it accompanied me in the Appalachians a couple times and I tried to tell myself that it would be an OK black bear gun if needed. 

The 357 has lost a bit of appeal for me over the years. All I have now is an SP101 and I don't use it for anything more than 38 special. I want to keep my tinnitus to a minimum so all magnums have lost their appeal and I'm subscribing to the old Jeff Cooper theory that when you need "more gun" the answer is usually more bullet; not just shoving more powder behind the same size bullet. If I were to move back to an area with bigger and nastier critters, I would probably be in the market for a .44 special like Ruger's recent run of Blackhawks in that caliber.

[Kendahl]

It's a decent "all-around" cartridge

That sums it up perfectly. If you can have only one gun, a medium frame, steel, .357 magnum revolver can shoot anything from mild .38s to hot .357s. If you can also afford a lever action rifle, the longer barrel will make the .357 even more effective.

[BranchMillardian]

That sums it up perfectly. If you can have only one gun, a medium frame, steel, .357 magnum revolver can shoot anything from mild .38s to hot .357s. If you can also afford a lever action rifle, the longer barrel will make the .357 even more effective.

If I could only take one caliber from everything I own it would be .357 Magnum...if I was starting all over again from scratch though it might just be .41 Magnum. I won't be surprised though if a few years from now all I have are 357's and my 12 gauge.

I just bought a Rossi Model 92 in 16" this past winter to go along with my other .357 Mangum revolvers. I was really holding out for a Marlin or Winchester, but could never find exactly what I wanted and just went with the Rossi. It's been great but I need to change out the sights. Something about those buckhorns, I just don't like how much it occludes my sight picture.

I also reload and am finding it's just great for mild to wild. I'm still trying to work down a cat sneeze load with Bullseye. So far I'm down to 2.0gr behind a 158 LSWC. I've even test fired a couple of glue gun bullets behind a primer only charge. Very quiet, varmints beware. 
 
I'm still working out an all round load that will work in the revolvers and this rifle. I'm consolidating and I've picked two bullets; Hornady 158gr XTP and a 170'ish grain Keith cast bullet. I'll probably have a "low" and a "high" powder load for each. So far the XTP with a healthy dose of HS-6 is showing to be very promising. Last I checked it chronos around 1000-1100 from my SP101, and I think that will put it right around 1400fps in the Rossi. Right on the upper end of the expansion velocity for that bullet. The Keith I'll hot-rod a little for whitetail...if I ever get to hunt again. I got married about ten years ago and the kids started popping out. 

[SemperFiGuy]

So far I'm down to 2.0gr behind a 158 LSWC.

Wow!!    That's getting right in there kinda tight, just a notch above the +Squib+ load.

sfg

[BranchMillardian]

  I blame Ed Harris: http://shilohtv.com/?p=3142

I just tried it a few months ago at a buddy's house out by Blair. No squibs, surprisingly, but I was anticipating getting out the cleaning rod. I worked down from 2.7gr. It sounds about like a .22lr in a 10/22. The "thwack" of the bullet hitting the target is louder. I actually want to try a different bullet before I give this another go. I should have set up my chrono.

I might try the 1.2gr load sometime as I've set aside some nickel .38 special cases strictly for my 15 grain glue gun bullets that I cast in a Lyman #358429 I bought off of eBay. Basically they are heavily lubed and deep seated down into the case. The primer hole is drilled out so the primer doesn't set back out of the pocket. Indications are that these are flying at about 400-500fps from a 4" revolver and they will break skin. Some other fellow has actually used them on rabbits and possum.

I haven't shot a lot of them, but these light glue gun bullet are intriguing...and fun! Like go karts. Accuracy is only good for about ten yards though. I want to keep these light loads around for rainy day practice and for training purposes when teaching new shooters who might be recoil/report shy.

[SemperFiGuy]

I want to keep these light loads around for rainy day practice and for training purposes when teaching new shooters who might be recoil/report shy.

And for a backup gun for Paint Gun.

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And for my continuing edification:   What'sa glue gun bullet?

sfg

[BranchMillardian]

And for a backup gun for Paint Gun.

==============

And for my continuing edification:   What'sa glue gun bullet?

sfg

Dang, I'm never playing paintball with you...but to answer your question. Here, I snapped a pic with my cellphone. Those are a batch I cast about a month or so ago. Here, for extra credit: http://tennesseegun.com/hot-glue-bullets/

I'm sure you could use them with a slide action pistol too, but it obviously won't have enough recoil to eject. You can catch them in a cardboard box and reuse several times.

[SemperFiGuy]

Fer Cryin' Out Loud.....

It's just like you said:   A Glue Gun Bullet.   An actual real glue gun bullet. 

Hooda thought an actual glue gun bullet.   With real glue.   Go figger.

.................

Let's not tell unfy.

He'll want to make them and then coat them.

(And don't go to the movies with these in yer pocket.   They'll get all mixed up with the JuJube Jellies.   Really gum up your teeth.)

Fer Cryin' Out Loud..............

sfg
BTW:  I checked out that shiloh lead you provided.   Those guys are beyond intense.

[BranchMillardian]

Heh, I don't know much about Shiloh.tv, just C. Ed Harris. If I remember correctly he was a machinist at Ruger and did design testing, inventer of "Ed's Red" blend for cleaning and lubricating firearms. He's a retired old codger now, but a lot of knowledge is rolling around in that head.

Here is another fellow who did a series on low-recoil, quiet loads; Shooting Low Recoil Rifle Loads - Pt 2: (Fast Forward to the .357 Mag)

If you rewind he's got some .30-30 loads he test fires too.

But we need some balance here. Let's get some flame throwers on here. Here is another one of my favorite videos:
(I have shot these in my SP101...two whole cylinders and I'm done for good. The rest of the box has been earmarked for rifle and GP100)

I'm kind of in the same boat as feralcatkiller, I like a cartridge with a heavy bullet moving around 1000-1100 from a 3"+ revolver.  Very versatile. Can you tell yet I'm a big fan of the .357?


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P.S. I avoid movie theaters. I feel like a sitting duck and most of the movies are garbage now. After just one year the money saved on not getting a babysitter, tickets and popcorn buys a pretty decent 4K TV.

[unfy]

(I have shot these in my SP101...two whole cylinders and I'm done for good. The rest of the box has been earmarked for rifle and GP100)

I miss my S&W 686P with 2.5" barrel or so .  Such a joy to shoot. 

Anyway, I'd load hot 357's with some Win296 powder and oh the fireball it'd produce!  Pure love <3  (slow powder, short barrel, mmmm boom!).

*drool*

I miss that thing