Provisional 2017 IDPA Rules up for discussion...

[JTH]

In case you hadn't heard, the provisional 2017 IDPA rulebook has been posted for review and comment.

There are some SIGNIFICANT changes to the rules, most of which (in my opinion) will make IDPA a lot more fun, take out a lot of the micromanaging, and reduce the number of subjective calls that will occur. 

Unfortunately, they still seem to be going with the 1-second-per-point-down thing, though.

Link:  http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook%202017.pdf

Some of the changes:

• No more tactical sequence.
• You can do reloads where-ever you like (including while moving), as long as you are not visible to an un-engaged target while doing so.
• BUG-R is now 5 rounds, not six.
• They've added Pistol-Caliber Carbine (PCC) as a division (yeah, we know, it makes no sense to add this, particularly since they denied Carry Optics)
• They've added a new special we-really-mean-it penalty, the "Flagrant Penalty" for when regular procedural penalties just don't seem enough but you can't justify a FTDR.
• FAULT LINES!  Okay, okay, they aren't "fault lines" they are "visual cover lines."
• New classifier--only 72 rounds, and the classifier times for various classifications have all changed, of course.
• Did I mention they are suddenly allowing pistol-caliber carbines but not carry guns with a dot on them, like a G17 with an RMR?

There are a number of other changes, also, many of which are pretty significant.  Most, like I said (IMO) will actually make the game run better.

A couple make very little sense to me.

Don't get me wrong---I'm having a blast shooting PCC in USPSA and Steel Challenge.  But...it pretty much completely goes against the main principals of IDPA (that whole self-defense/concealed carry bit), they are limiting the magazines to 10 rounds, IDPA scenario stages generally require shooters to carry things, move stuff, shoot one-handed, etc....and the use of cover/ports all the time in tight circumstances is common in IDPA stages.

Pretty much all of those details are the things that making shooting PCC NOT fun.  While I enjoy PCC, other than trying it once, I can't see myself actually shooting it in an IDPA match hardly at all.

And the 1-second penalty is...just ridiculous, IMO. 

A Bill Drill is something that has actually been used as one string on an IDPA stage before.  Someone does a Bill Drill in 2.5 seconds (respectable time!) with 2 points down will now be beaten by someone who does it with no points down in 4.49 seconds.  Are we saying that in our self-defense practice, two good hits to the down-1 area is worse than taking two whole extra seconds to move them a couple of inches in?  (Remember, the down zero area isn't small.  If the argument was between an actual quick-incapacitation zone and the down-zone, that might be one thing...but it isn't.)

Looking at match results, we see that the top finishes are already more accurate than most, while also being faster than everyone else.  Most of their points are due to accepting a down-1 due to the speed of everything else. They'll be able to slow down slightly to increase their accuracy, and it won't really change anything for them.

On the other hand, the mid-level folks (on down) are already shooting at the maximum speed they can manage, with the best accuracy they can get.  If they slow down they aren't really going to get any more accurate---they'll just be slower.  If they speed up, their accuracy will get worse.

In other words, for most of them, all that is going to happen is that their penalty points are going to double.

So the top finishers in any match aren't really going to change much (drop a little, due to doubled penalties, but not much, since they'll slow down a little to have fewer) and the mid-level-on-down is going to drop with double the amount of penalty time.  All that will happen is a larger spread, and the people who aren't at the top are going to see that they are even farther from the top at the end of the match.

I'm still waiting to see what sort of problem this is going to solve.  Are we seeing people win major matches with huge numbers of points down?  (If you look at the major match results available on IDPA.com, the answer is a resounding no.  The people who win ALSO have lower points down than most of the other shooters.)

Considering that Joyce has already made a large number of proclamations about this, the chance of it not happening is pretty small, even if a huge number of people write in with commentary that it shouldn't be done.  And yet....no one has ever managed to make any coherent statement of what type of problem it is supposed to solve, and I'm betting in a year, all that we'll see is that we have a larger spread in the match scores, and no real changes other than that.

If you shoot IDPA, take a look at the proposed rules!  From the IDPA page:

"All comments, reviews, and suggestions should be sent to Comments@idpa.com. Be sure to include your IDPA number as those without will not be reviewed."

[JTH]

Something else important---the box sizes for CCP and BUG are now smaller.

So much so, that a number of guns DON'T fit anymore.

So check your guns carefully, then email IDPA and tell them to keep the original box dimensions, because the ONLY thing that smaller boxes do, IMO, is take a whole bunch of guns that people have already been using in those divisions and make them suddenly non-legal.

(Making BUG-R 5-shot max does the same, imo, but truthfully, the standard BUG revolver WAS a 5-shot snubbie.  The fact that you could shoot a 3" six-shooter was...a little ridiculous.)

[rimfirerick]

The proposed rule re: CCP gun dimensions is HORRIBLE. In the IDPA Summer Tactical Journal, on pages 23 - 25 they advertised and reviewed the Springfield EMP 4 as "an excellent option for concealed carry and winning in the CCP Division"....the EXACT words in the article.

I bought an EMP4 expressly for shooting in the CCP Division and now, in less than ONE year, the proposed CCP size requirement changes will ELIMINATE the EMP4 from the CCP Division.......after the IDPA advertised it, reviewed it, qualified it,endorsed it, and gave it their Blessing in their own magazine.

THAT type of change doesn't make shooting IDPA more fun, run smoother, or anything else even remotely "positive"................and as these changes are NOT a "safety" issue, not a concealment issue, not a "compact issue", there must be another reason for the changes and the elimination of so many previously approved handguns for CCP and although I hate to say it, I think someone ( Mfg.) will benefit from those changes that eliminate so many competitors.

And yes, I did let my feelings be known in IDPA feedback, but, I doubt that will matter as they have shown they work for THEIR own benefit and as they see fit. and NOT that of the member shooter.

[whatsit]

Ugh. Would have loved to see a carry optics division. I haven't ever played idpa, but if I could use my rmr'd carry gun I would be much more motivated to try it.

[Lorimor]

Maybe KSTG is the answer?

http://kstghq.com/

[JTH]

The proposed rule re: CCP gun dimensions is HORRIBLE. In the IDPA Summer Tactical Journal, on pages 23 - 25 they advertised and reviewed the Springfield EMP 4 as "an excellent option for concealed carry and winning in the CCP Division"....the EXACT words in the article.

I bought an EMP4 expressly for shooting in the CCP Division and now, in less than ONE year, the proposed CCP size requirement changes will ELIMINATE the EMP4 from the CCP Division.......after the IDPA advertised it, reviewed it, qualified it,endorsed it, and gave it their Blessing in their own magazine.

There are quite a few guns that people have already been using in those divisions that are suddenly no longer legal. 

Wilson has a gun that'll fit the box, though.  http://www.wilsoncombat.com/2015-protector-compact/

Apparently you should just buy Wilson for PCC and CCP, and you'll be just fine.  :/

[JTH]

Maybe KSTG is the answer?

http://kstghq.com/

Truthfully, a number of the match rule changes are ones that I think will make matches run MUCH better.  (The new reload rules, cover lines, couple of other things.)

The division changes plus the "Flagrant Penalty" item are, in my opinion, both badly thought-out, and going to be an issue for competitors. 

Still think the 1-second-per-point-down is stupid. 

[JTH]

So, there's some new information now available.  This has been verified, it really WAS sent out in an email from the Florida IDPA AC to various people.

 "This will be our rulebook for the next 5 years. No clarifications and updates to these rules. We are separating best practices and classifier brackets and PCC.
So here are the 2017 Cliff’s Notes:
What’s new after the comment period?
1) Cover and Fault Lines. The short version is we renamed the lines as Fault Lines. And use them the same way now. This means if you are inside the lines when firing, you are good. We also prefer physical barriers and objects to force shooters to remain in cover and when they are correctly used, a shooter is good inside the barrier. We intend to enforce this during the stage approval process at major matches. All the shooter needs to know is if you are inside the designated area, you may engage targets.

Here is Bill Wilson’s comments regarding fault lines: "In my personal opinion and in those of many who have talked with me candidly about IDPA the biggest single problem with our sport has been arbitrary cover calls. There have been many competitors leave a match disgruntled over what they felt were incorrect cover calls and the PEs they received. While none of us think our solution is perfect, I much prefer it to judgment calls and feel match officiating will be much more consistent because of the changes. In addition and major positive is that a substantial burden will be removed from MDs and SOs. PE cover calls will be simple now, if your foot isn't over the fault line or you don't move a physical barrier, you don't get a PE, simple as that!!!"

2) Specialty Division replaces Not for Competition (NFC). In it we will allow BUG, PCC, Carry Optics, Weapon mounted lights and lasers. If you want to run a match with these guns, have fun. These are
at a MD's discretion. They are going to be permitted as scored divisions in 'Specialty Matches'.

3) Sanctioned Specialty Matches must be approved by HQ. Local clubs can accept specialty divisions as long as the platform is for everyday use. No Open guns. PCC as a specialty division is an anomaly to the concept of every day carry in most places but not an anomaly to defensive based principals. This is why matches with PCC are considered Specialty Matches. This is not getting wedged into our legacy matches.

Here is Bill Wilson’s thoughts on this:
"Personally I'm excited about the new PCC division and think anyone who tries it will find out like I did how much FUN pistol caliber carbines are to shoot. I also hope everyone understands this is a work in progress provisional division that is totally separate from any of our pistol divisions. Match directors and course designers are encouraged to implement stages where the competitor shoots the carbine empty and transitions to their handgun to finish the stage therefore making PCC very relevant to IDPA. With literally dozens of pistol caliber carbines on the market now of all price ranges it's very easy to get started in PCC. Hope you all enjoy it and help this new division flourish."

4) Next up we codified the Flagrant Penalties. No mind reading required. If you do certain things, you are getting an FP. This is not a judgment call. Innocent mistakes are 10 seconds.
Examples of an FP (non-inclusive list):
· COF requires 6-shots weak hand, shooter shoots freestyle instead.
· SHO/WHO strings / stages shot Freestyle
· Not going prone when required
· Not fully engaging all targets as required
· Not following stage requirement that takes longer than 3 seconds to perform
· Shooting an entire array out of cover
· Speed Reload or similar actions
· Staging an ammunition feeding device incorrectly
· Extra rounds in magazines

5) We have a new Target that has a 4" circle inside the head zone for zero down. The existing 8” circle in the lower zone is still there. Effectively the 1 down zone grew. It will roll out at the Nationals next year. You can make your own using a 4” template in the center of the head while waiting for target manufacturers to add the die.

6) BUG size changed slightly (weight) to accommodate the Shield. The current draft would make them not legal which was not the intention.

7) CCP BOX size was changed because over a half dozen full sized service pistols fit in our current CCP box. There was a table top discussion about size and weight.

Here is Bill Wilson’s comment on these changes:
"I understand there has been a certain amount of pushback from the membership in regards to the changes to the CCP and BUG equipment rules. It's human nature to resist change, no matter what it is, however in this case it was necessary to bring these two divisions to the original intent, which has always been competing with guns the majority of the CCW population actually carry. The original size and weight allowed many of the popular full size service pistols to compete in CCP (we already have 3 established divisions for full size service pistols) and many popular primary carry guns to compete in BUG. The revisions to CCP are designed around Glock 19/23 and 1911 compact pistols, which are some of the most common pistols actually carried on a daily basis, while BUG changes are based on popular S&W J frame and S&W Shield size back-up guns."

So that is the weekend BOD discussion. What else is new in 2017?

8 ) Tac. Sequence is gone

9) Reload rules emphasize Emergency or slide lock reloads. No more stages requiring ‘an IDPA legal reload’ in the middle of a stage. You are only restricted reloading by two things:
· Speed reloads (dropping a mag with a round in the chamber)
· Exposed to targets that are not fully engaged.

10) One second per point will be used.

11) Shooting at anything other than a target on a stage is a DQ.

12) The classifier COF has changed. Your classification will not. Your classifier is good until the next time you need to shoot one and then, you will use the new COF. Equity is still the same.

13) When you shoot a classifier in semi auto, the date of classification will cover ALL semi auto divisions.

14) Memory Stages are not legal. Anything that requires you to take your focus off shooting to remember what’s next is a memory stage.

15) No more 'make believe' stages meaning you may not restrict shooters from shooting anything they see with the stage briefing. If they can see it, they can shoot it legally. An example is: ‘you must move to another position before those targets are available.’ ‘Pretend that is a wall’.

16) In fact, Stage descriptions may not restrict someone from doing anything that is legal to do in the rule book. This is in addition to the old rule that a stage description cannot overrule a rule in the rulebook.

17) The Cover command is no longer used in matches although it is permitted in local matches to help new shooters.

18) Chronograph at matches will be done with the competitor’s gun. MD’s no longer required to run around looking for another gun with the longest barrel in a division.

19) You are now required to wear your holster on every stage regardless of whether you need it because of alternate start positions. No more undressing.

20) Written stage descriptions are required for every stage. They require the following:
· A defensive scenario or a standards (skills test)
· Start position
· Specifies firearm condition (loaded, unloaded, downloaded)
· Shooting Procedure
· Identifies points of cover and fault lines
· Specify using the 180 or points out the muzzle safe points
· Specifies the minimum round count and whether the stage is limited or unlimited
· Specifies if a concealment garment is NOT required
· A descriptive diagram of the CoF is recommended but not required.

21) Alternate Scoring on stages is no longer used. If you receive a start signal, you get a score even if you did not get off a round. Just score the stage. Squibs, slip and fall, crash into something, malfunctions are on the shooter. No reshoots.

22) The muzzle safe point on doors and other handles is clarified to mean when a shooters hand is inside of the safe area. Allowing your muzzle to sweep the area without human flesh inside of that area is not a DQ.

23) Similarly, if you sweep your leg from a seated holster draw, you are not protected from a DQ because of the rule allowing IWB holsters. Once your trigger is available for a shooters finger, your muzzle is in play.

24) Maximum target distance on scenario stages is now 20 yards. Standards are 50.

25) Shooters Code of Conduct has been modified to allow the MD more discretion in issuing penalties for shooters who do not paste and reset.

26) It is now also a penalty for a shooter to cause any disturbance while up-range that interferes with a shooter or safety officer while shooting. This includes distracting a shooter from his concentration while shooting. It also includes coaching. This has become an issue at major matches so we included something in this rule book. The MD must confirm these penalties like FTDR penalties.

With respect;
Rick
Rick Lund, A27521
Florida Area Coordinator
IDPA"

Looking at those, I am interested to see how many of them really bring IDPA much closer to USPSA!

Several things in it I like, but several are.....well, I think they are foolish.  The flagrant penalty, among others, seems to be extremely poorly thought-out, in terms of how it will be applied.  I of course still think that the 1-second-per-point-down is a bad choice, but my favorite "What the heck?!" moment came when Bill Wilson said this:

"Match directors and course designers are encouraged to implement stages where the competitor shoots the carbine empty and transitions to their handgun to finish the stage therefore making PCC very relevant to IDPA. "

Whaa??

IDPA is going to become a two-gun match?  What IDPA member is going to show up with both a PCC and a handgun for a match---since when was having two loaded weapons on the line legal?  And considering how many rounds you can carry when shooting PCC, if you run out of ammo and transition to your handgun, what is going to happen to the people in the other divisions who don't have a second gun to transition to?

So...my carbine runs empty, I throw it down and draw my backup....what, just dropping it isn't going to be legal?

Ok, so....my carbine runs empty, I drop it so the sling holds it, and draw my backup...what, no slings?

I'm just supposed to hold my carbine in one hand, and shoot with my handgun in the other?

I love the fact that with "fault lines" now, "cover" is a concept that has no meaning.  As long as your feet are within the fault lines, you are good.  Heh.

The new rulebook is going to be.....interesting. 

I wonder if they are still sticking with the 1-second-per-point-down thing so they can still argue how much different they are from USPSA?  They got a TON of feedback from people saying how IDPA should NOT change the points-down penalty, which they are apparently ignoring.

I'd currently signed up to shoot an IDPA Level IV match in April 2017.  Should be interesting to see how the new rules affect everyone...

(Oh, and I love how with a sudden unilateral decision that was based on no commentary or feedback from members, all the target companies that make IDPA targets will have to re-tool and add a scoring zone inside the headbox for it to remain an official IDPA target.  When will that become required, I wonder?  IDPA had JUST sent out an email with a discount for Target Barn, and several people have already commented that they just bought hundreds of IDPA targets for the upcoming year with that discount---wonder when those targets that they bought will suddenly become useless?)

[tstuart34]

Sounds a little better...

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[abbafandr]

Kinda makes me appreciate USPSA that much more

[JTH]

So, the (supposedly) final form of the IDPA rulebook is out:

http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/k0vchmkq.nkx.pdf

...in my opinion, they took almost all of the good things that were in the provisional rulebook and screwed up their implementation.    The reload rules are about the only part I think they initially got right, and KEPT it right.

The fault line idea initially was great...then they screwed it up in the final ruleset by saying you could only have one fault line at any particular point of cover--which means that if the target array is separated at all, you are  either 1) going to have to crowd cover, and 2) lean out ridiculously far OR hang onto the cover and shoot one-handed around cover, neither of which makes sense in context.  The illustration in the rulebook of how fault lines should be used seems to show an array that would be almost impossible to actually shoot. 

Failure to Neutralize (as a penalty) has now disappeared.  It doesn't exist anymore!  (Probably because if you already have two Down Three hits on a target, the 6 second penalty you just picked up is sufficient without adding another 5 seconds on top of that.)

PCC has (mostly) disappeared, even though supposedly there is a classifier arrangement and rating times for it that no one has seen.  It is a "specialty division" which is undefined and treated like the former-NFC division, which means that no one knows exactly what PCC is or what you can do, BUT it can be shot at local matches anyway as NFC.  (Which isn't called that anymore.)

Take a look at the new rules---they are interesting.  And they are now officially in effect, as they started being official on January 1st.

(If you don't understand any part of it, too bad, because they have already loudly proclaimed "no clarifications, changes, or interpretations will occur!")

Don't get me wrong, folks:  IDPA is fun to shoot, and the people who shoot it (most of them) are fun to be around.  That is separate from my opinion regarding IDPA HQ and the decisions they make.

There's an IDPA match at Thunder Alley tomorrow---come out and give it a try.  As long as you are safe, the worst that will happen is that you'll have fun shooting.

[JTH]

Oh, wait.....now there is a NEW final version out.

http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/4sig5pxx.mr1.pdf

[sigh]

[JTH]

...on the good side, it DOES seem to clear up (and fix) a few (at least) of the prior version's problems...

....boy, tomorrow's IDPA match should be interesting!