What's the Deal with Bills of Sale?

[Merl]

The original post is inaccurate to begin with.  A bill of sale is a form of a contract and does have standing in a legal case.  First is is against the law for a person to sell a handgun to a felon, so if you get a bill of sale with a valid purchase permit and id listed it will clear you if he is found to be a felon in possession.  Second if a crime is commited with the gun it will clear you of being the owner of said gun.  Now do not take my word for it, read it here. 
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/bill-of-sale-laws.html

[Laufen]

If a Bill of Sale has no legal standing then why am I required to provide on to the County when I go to license a vehicle in a private purchase transaction?

Are you talking about an automobile BOS?

[Laufen]

The original post is inaccurate to begin with.  A bill of sale is a form of a contract and does have standing in a legal case.  First is is against the law for a person to sell a handgun to a felon, so if you get a bill of sale with a valid purchase permit and id listed it will clear you if he is found to be a felon in possession.  Second if a crime is commited with the gun it will clear you of being the owner of said gun.  Now do not take my word for it, read it here. 
https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/bill-of-sale-laws.html

First, it IS illegal to knowingly sell a gun to a felon.  Second, it is not required that you investigate the person you are selling to.  You may not sell to a person that you know is a felon, but you are not required to dig into the person's background.
Second, if a crime were committed with the firearm, and you didn't commit the crime...VOILA!  You're innocent!

[CC]

"Second, if a crime were committed with the firearm, and you didn't commit the crime.."

Absolutely, no innocent person has ever been sent to prison

[Laufen]

"Second, if a crime were committed with the firearm, and you didn't commit the crime.."

Absolutely, no innocent person has ever been sent to prison

In which case a BOS wouldn't do crap for you.  If you think a non-notarized scrap of paper is a get out of jail free card...lol.

[Opusnbill7]

Nobody says it is, but it's sure a hell of a lot better than not having one at all.  It may not be perfect, but at least it shows you "tried".  You verified their permit against their ID (that they presented).  Unless you're sleeping with the prosecutor's wife on the side, he'll probably move on... 

[SemperFiGuy]

The basic premise of this post is that a bill of sale "has no validity in law".

Bills of Sale have substantial validity in law.

The Cornell Law site shows 9 pages of Uniform Commercial Code which apply to bills of sale, starting here:

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46 CFR 67.527- Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of a bill of sale.

§ 67.527 Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of ... a bill of sale. An application fee is charged for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in ... the nature of a bill of sale in accordance with subpart P of this part. Section 67.527 ...

bill of sale

ownership and to detail what was actually purchased. A bill of sale may accompany an agreement that states ...

26 CFR 403.60- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 403.60 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property ... is entitled to receive a suitable bill of sale. Section 403.60 ...

27 CFR 72.66- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 72.66 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property, ... including carriers, shall be entitled to receive a suitable and authentic bill of sale on a form to be ...

46 CFR 67.89- Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording.

§ 67.89 Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording. (a) When the ... evidence of title passage required by this subpart is a bill of sale which meets the criteria for filing ... Center waive that requirement. (b) No waiver of the requirement to produce a bill of sale eligible for ...

19 CFR 24.34- Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices.

§ 24.34 Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices. (a) Vouchers or invoices for ... payment has not been received. Vouchers, vendors' bills of sale, or invoices for purchases or ...

46 CFR Part 67, Subpart P- Filing and Recording of Instruments- Bills of Sale and Related Instruments

§ 67.220 Requirements. § 67.223 Filing limitation. ...

46 CFR 67.75- Transfers by sale or donation subsequent to documentation.

provided in this subpart, transfers of vessel title must be evidenced by a bill of sale which meets the ... subpart O of this part, each bill of sale must be accompanied by a declaration of citizenship from the new ... owner, executed on the appropriate Maritime Administration form described in § 67.211. (b) The bill of ...

46 CFR 67.200- Instruments eligible for filing and recording.

eligible for filing and recording: (a) Bills of sale and instruments in the nature of bills of sale; (b) ...

46 CFR 67.501- Application for Certificate of Documentation.

and recording any required bills of sale or instruments in the nature of a bill of sale, or the ...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
==================

Time now to wrap this one up.


sfg

[Les]

 

The basic premise of this post is that a bill of sale "has no validity in law".

Bills of Sale have substantial validity in law.

The Cornell Law site shows 9 pages of Uniform Commercial Code which apply to bills of sale, starting here:

===================
 

Search
 

GET THE LAW
LAWYER DIRECTORY
LEGAL ENCYCLOPEDIA
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Home › Search › Search results › "bill of sale"
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"bill of sale"
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46 CFR 67.527- Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of a bill of sale.

§ 67.527 Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of ... a bill of sale. An application fee is charged for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in ... the nature of a bill of sale in accordance with subpart P of this part. Section 67.527 ...

bill of sale

ownership and to detail what was actually purchased. A bill of sale may accompany an agreement that states ...

26 CFR 403.60- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 403.60 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property ... is entitled to receive a suitable bill of sale. Section 403.60 ...

27 CFR 72.66- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 72.66 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property, ... including carriers, shall be entitled to receive a suitable and authentic bill of sale on a form to be ...

46 CFR 67.89- Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording.

§ 67.89 Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording. (a) When the ... evidence of title passage required by this subpart is a bill of sale which meets the criteria for filing ... Center waive that requirement. (b) No waiver of the requirement to produce a bill of sale eligible for ...

19 CFR 24.34- Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices.

§ 24.34 Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices. (a) Vouchers or invoices for ... payment has not been received. Vouchers, vendors' bills of sale, or invoices for purchases or ...

46 CFR Part 67, Subpart P- Filing and Recording of Instruments- Bills of Sale and Related Instruments

§ 67.220 Requirements. § 67.223 Filing limitation. ...

46 CFR 67.75- Transfers by sale or donation subsequent to documentation.

provided in this subpart, transfers of vessel title must be evidenced by a bill of sale which meets the ... subpart O of this part, each bill of sale must be accompanied by a declaration of citizenship from the new ... owner, executed on the appropriate Maritime Administration form described in § 67.211. (b) The bill of ...

46 CFR 67.200- Instruments eligible for filing and recording.

eligible for filing and recording: (a) Bills of sale and instruments in the nature of bills of sale; (b) ...

46 CFR 67.501- Application for Certificate of Documentation.

and recording any required bills of sale or instruments in the nature of a bill of sale, or the ...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
==================

Time now to wrap this one up.


sfg

[CC]

Nice job.

[Laufen]

Nobody says it is, but it's sure a hell of a lot better than not having one at all.  It may not be perfect, but at least it shows you "tried".  You verified their permit against their ID (that they presented).  Unless you're sleeping with the prosecutor's wife on the side, he'll probably move on... 

I don't need to "try" or convince anyone that I did.  I'm not a federally licensed dealer and I am not required to keep or dispense any personal data in the sale of a firearm.  I can't imagine why anyone would want to do such a thing. 

Put those yolks on y'all./

[Laufen]

The basic premise of this post is that a bill of sale "has no validity in law".

Bills of Sale have substantial validity in law.

The Cornell Law site shows 9 pages of Uniform Commercial Code which apply to bills of sale, starting here:

===================
 

Search
 

GET THE LAW
LAWYER DIRECTORY
LEGAL ENCYCLOPEDIA
HELP OUT
Follow
Home › Search › Search results › "bill of sale"
Site
Enter terms 
"bill of sale"
  Search

Search results
46 CFR 67.527- Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of a bill of sale.

§ 67.527 Application for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in the nature of ... a bill of sale. An application fee is charged for filing and recording bills of sale and instruments in ... the nature of a bill of sale in accordance with subpart P of this part. Section 67.527 ...

bill of sale

ownership and to detail what was actually purchased. A bill of sale may accompany an agreement that states ...

26 CFR 403.60- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 403.60 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property ... is entitled to receive a suitable bill of sale. Section 403.60 ...

27 CFR 72.66- Purchaser entitled to bill of sale.

§ 72.66 Purchaser entitled to bill of sale. Each purchaser of administratively forfeited property, ... including carriers, shall be entitled to receive a suitable and authentic bill of sale on a form to be ...

46 CFR 67.89- Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording.

§ 67.89 Waiver of production of a bill of sale eligible for filing and recording. (a) When the ... evidence of title passage required by this subpart is a bill of sale which meets the criteria for filing ... Center waive that requirement. (b) No waiver of the requirement to produce a bill of sale eligible for ...

19 CFR 24.34- Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices.

§ 24.34 Vouchers; vendors' bills of sale; invoices. (a) Vouchers or invoices for ... payment has not been received. Vouchers, vendors' bills of sale, or invoices for purchases or ...

46 CFR Part 67, Subpart P- Filing and Recording of Instruments- Bills of Sale and Related Instruments

§ 67.220 Requirements. § 67.223 Filing limitation. ...

46 CFR 67.75- Transfers by sale or donation subsequent to documentation.

provided in this subpart, transfers of vessel title must be evidenced by a bill of sale which meets the ... subpart O of this part, each bill of sale must be accompanied by a declaration of citizenship from the new ... owner, executed on the appropriate Maritime Administration form described in § 67.211. (b) The bill of ...

46 CFR 67.200- Instruments eligible for filing and recording.

eligible for filing and recording: (a) Bills of sale and instruments in the nature of bills of sale; (b) ...

46 CFR 67.501- Application for Certificate of Documentation.

and recording any required bills of sale or instruments in the nature of a bill of sale, or the ...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
==================

Time now to wrap this one up.


sfg

So, are you saying that a scrap of paper with a couple signatures and a s/n is a valid bill of sale?   In which instance would you present such a legal instrument, and what would it do for you?

Here's a hint:  You are not required to produce or keep a bill of sale as a private citizen.  There is no instance when it will "help you" with a legal issue.   It's NOT required under the law.   This is pretty simple stuff.

[CC]

'Here's a hint:  You are not required to produce or keep a bill of sale as a private citizen.  There is no instance when it will "help you" with a legal issue.   It's NOT required under the law.   This is pretty simple stuff.'

Not required so don't do it. Feel like it offers a level of protection then so it. Now that is simple stuff.

[SemperFiGuy]

Here Lies the Serious Danger in This Original Post:

Simply, that some Forum Folks will actually believe it.   Please don't.

Many Forum Followers base their firearms and shooting sports decisions upon information and discussions posted on the NFOA Forum.

So--some may be led to discontinue use of bills of sale in their firearms transactions if they accept the erroneous conclusions of the original post.

Bills of sale for firearms clearly have serious legal validity.   It's always a good idea to use them here in Nebraska.   Perhaps everything is different in the State of Georgia, from which the original posting was made.   But not in Nebraska.  A bill of sale can save a heap of trouble for both buyers and sellers.

And, quoting that eminent source, Forrest Gump, "That's All I've Got to Say About That."

FWIW,

sfg

[depserv]

Here Lies the Danger in This Original Post:

Simply, that some Forum Folks will actually believe it.   Please don't.

Many Forum Followers base their firearms and shooting sports decisions upon information and discussions posted on the NFOA Forum.

So--some may be led to discontinue use of bills of sale in their firearms transactions if they accept the erroneous conclusions of the original post.

Bills of sale for firearms clearly have serious legal validity.   It's always a good idea to use them here in Nebraska.   Perhaps everything is different in the State of Georgia, from which the original posting was made.   But not in Nebraska.  A bill of sale can save a heap of trouble for both buyers and sellers.

And, quoting that eminent source, Forrest Gump, "That's All I've Got to Say About That."

FWIW,

sfg

Hey wait a minute, I thought if something is written that means it has to be true, especially if it's written on an internet site.  I remember Abraham Lincoln telling me that the other day when he came over for dinner and a movie.  And you'd think a former president would be telling me the truth, especially Honest Abe.

[shooter]

 Mabye Mr. Clark will  jump in and end this mess.

[Merl]

So, are you saying that a scrap of paper with a couple signatures and a s/n is a valid bill of sale?   In which instance would you present such a legal instrument, and what would it do for you?

Here's a hint:  You are not required to produce or keep a bill of sale as a private citizen.  There is no instance when it will "help you" with a legal issue.   It's NOT required under the law.   This is pretty simple stuff.

Well I think seeing how GA has its own Bill of Sale for private transfer of firearms, you are only trolling the forum and really do not know what your talking about.  Time for Mods to end this post please...
https://billofsale.net/ga/georgia-firearm-bill-of-sale/

[CC]

Why do you want the mods to end the post?  Let people discuss it instead of censoring a different point of view. Maybe the mods will create a safe space section instead  .

[Les]

Hmmm, jimmies have been rustled yet again.  I understand healthy and vigorous discussion, but trolling is evident.    Before the internet trolling was associated with fishing, now not so much.

[Laufen]

Well I think seeing how GA has its own Bill of Sale for private transfer of firearms, you are only trolling the forum and really do not know what your talking about.  Time for Mods to end this post please...
https://billofsale.net/ga/georgia-firearm-bill-of-sale/

You could insert any state name on a downloadable bill of sale.  It's certainly not required in Georgia, I can promise you that. 

Neither Federal, state, nor local law requires me to write personal information of a buyer or seller on a scrap of paper when I dispose of a firearm.

Is having a differing opinion always "trolling"?  What's the point of discussing in an echo chamber?  Protect the feels?

[cz75shooter]

You may not sell to a person that you know is a felon, but you are not required to dig into the person's background.

That's not true in Nebraska. For handgun sales, the seller is obligated to verify that the buyer has a purchase permit or a concealed handgun permit.