Anti-gun bigots do the gun control dance, as usual

[depserv]

Here are my thoughts on the reaction by bigots to the recent tragedy in Las Vegas:

Once again freedom-hating bigots are dancing on the bodies of the dead demanding civilian disarmament, even before all the facts are known. This is the dance of the demagog, which is the tool of the tyrant, and the demagog knows that it is best to strike quickly, before the facts are known and while emotions run high.

But here's one essential fact we do know: the biggest mass murders have all been committed with things other than guns, so freedom-hating bigots can do the gun control dance all they want, but the truth is even getting rid of ALL guns will not stop someone intent on committing mass murder from doing so. It will just change the method.

And here's another important fact: the biggest mass murders have all been committed by governments, against people who were disarmed, supposedly for their own protection. This is the reality of gun control.

And this leads to another important thing we know for certain: the hands of those who disarm victims are filthy with blood. This has proven itself over and over throughout history. Do not let the liars of liberal media cover up this truth.

The killer in yesterday's massacre was a multi-millionaire, a very successful, very intelligent, very capable man. He had lots of resources, even including his own plane, and lots of money, both of which gave him great power. And he had the ability to use that power to its maximum effect, as his financial success shows.

Even if all guns could magically be removed from the world, or if only government and those who protect first class citizens had access to guns, a man with those resources and capabilities, who was willing to spend days preparing for his act, would be no less able to commit mass murder. This is a cold hard truth that the enemy of freedom seeks to cover up.

One of the biggest mass murders in recent history was an arson fire committed by a man who used about a dollar's worth of gasoline. This mass murder was committed at the Happyland Social Club in NYC in 1990; 87 people were killed. And the guy who did it did not have the intelligence or the resources this recent killer had. And then there is the Oklahoma City bombing, that killed 168 people. Do you think this guy couldn't have planned and carried out something like that?

To try to use this tragedy as an excuse to disarm civilians is an act of a liar and the strategy of one who aspires to be a tyrant. It is the kind of thing that must always be opposed by those who would remain free.

[FarmerRick]

http://us92.com/state-news/ashford-wants-a-list-of-assault-weapons-that-should-not-be-sold-here/

In the aftermath of the nation’s worst mass shooting—at least 59 dead and 527 injured—former Congressman Brad Ashford, who wants his old job back, is pushing for a ban on at least some assault weapons.

“I support working with law enforcement to develop a list of assault weapons that should not be sold here,” Ashford posted on Facebook Monday night. “For my 18 years as a legislator I have supported responsible gun violence legislation. I will continue to do so. It is irresponsible to ignore the harm that is in plain sight.”

 

[ILoveCats]

Same 'ol song and dance.  Only thing new here is that the shooter might have used a bump stock, which always seemed to be a silly flaunting of the law.  Either make full auto legal or don't, but I'm not a big fan of wink-and-nod workarounds.   See second photo on Fox news article.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/10/03/las-vegas-shooting-photos-show-killers-guns.html

[Mntnman]

They will go on and on about how deadly the bump fire stock and holographic sight are when in reality they are both worthless at that distance for anything other than indiscriminate discharging of rounds. I have fired a bump fire stock. There is no aiming involved, especially at distance. I told my friend after hearing the audio that I was sure what it was going to be. I heard "machine gun trainers" on the radio claiming that they were sure that it was full auto firing. It is obvious if you have heard the spastic rates of bump firing that it differs from full auto.

As sad and tragic as this event is, we can be thankful that the evil actor really did not plan it out any better. He had the means to kill thousands if he wanted to, without guns.

[ILoveCats]

Re. bump stocks:

... they are ... worthless at that distance for anything other than indiscriminate discharging of rounds. I have fired a bump fire stock. There is no aiming involved, especially at distance.

Which is why I could care less if the ATF changed their position on them, or if they were outlawed.  Good and honorable people don't do "indiscriminate" killing even in a self defense situation.  Good and honorable people are accountable for every round. 

I'm no expert but I consider Jeff Cooper to have been one, and he abhorred full auto fire not for some namby-pamby emotional reason but because it is "bad tactics", with just a few rather unique exceptions such as repelling piracy when you're out on the seas alone, or suppressive fire -- which only really works against non-suicidal adversaries.

As sad and tragic as this event is, we can be thankful that the evil actor really did not plan it out any better. He had the means to kill thousands if he wanted to, without guns.

That's a good argument to raise with one's liberal friends.

[FarmerRick]

Re. bump stocks:

Which is why I could care less if the ATF changed their position on them, or if they were outlawed.  Good and honorable people don't do "indiscriminate" killing even in a self defense situation.  Good and honorable people are accountable for every round. 

I'm no expert but I consider Jeff Cooper to have been one, and he abhorred full auto fire not for some namby-pamby emotional reason but because it is "bad tactics", with just a few rather unique exceptions such as repelling piracy when you're out on the seas alone, or suppressive fire -- which only really works against non-suicidal adversaries.


That's a good argument to raise with one's liberal friends.

Re:  the part in bold...   

The ATF only ruled if a "bumpfire" stock made a rifle into a fully automatic weapon, which it clearly DOES NOT.  The rifle will still only fire one round each time the trigger is pulled.
https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf

[Mntnman]

Re. bump stocks:

Which is why I could care less if the ATF changed their position on them, or if they were outlawed.  Good and honorable people don't do "indiscriminate" killing even in a self defense situation.  Good and honorable people are accountable for every round. 

As a defender of the 2A, I don’t believe the ATF should have any say in what people choose to use. IMO, they are fun for some to use and they don’t need to justify that with anyone. I would never buy one but those who do seem to enjoy them. The percentage of them in existence that have been used nefariously is very low, this being the only time that I am aware of. Like you stated, full auto is almost always less effective than semiautomatic and these are even less ideal than full auto.

[Mntnman]

Like you stated, full auto is almost always less effective than semiautomatic and these are even less ideal than full auto.

If keep allowing them to set subjective limits, we are screwed because they know this or will figure it out and we lose semis. Ask Australia.

[depserv]

All firearms are deadly, each in their own way, and anti-gun bigots know it.  They pretend to only be after certain ones as part of a divide and conquer strategy but those who are not stupid can easily see through it.

Their first target long ago was handguns, which they targeted using the slogan Saturday Night Specials.  The traitor Sarah brady called her first gun control group Handgun Control Inc. (and then later just Handgun Control, then the Brady Campaign, and so on).  Handguns made more sense than any other category because the lion's share of deaths by gun are handgun deaths.  It turned out though that the same thing that made them useful for crime and suicide made them even more useful for self defense (which I think is the real reason they wanted them and all other guns outlawed in the first place).  So they have more or less given up on this category.  For now. 

Kind of anyway.  They no longer specifically target handguns, but they do target modern handguns by including them in the category of so-called assault weapons.  What's interesting about this is that these are more or less the opposite of what the slogan Saturday Night Special pretended to refer to.  So they have attacked handguns from opposite ends of the technology spectrum.

Shotguns are well known as exceptionally effective combat weapons.  They are as popular with criminals as they are with police.  They are common in the military and would be much more so if they had better range, but when it comes to criminal use limited range is not usually a big deal, since it's hard to rob somebody from a hundred yards away.  They haven't targeted this category yet but if they did manage to get the other ones they would most certainly go after this one.  Not right away of course or their lie would become too obvious.

And then there is the deer hunting/sniper rifle.  JFK and MLK were both killed by snipers, and I have no doubt corrupt political hacks and aspiring despots are well aware of the danger to them posed by the ability of a skilled patriot to kill a man at very long range.  Like shotguns, these have not been targeted yet (excuse the pun), but that's only because the legitimate sporting purpose lie has served anti-gun bigots so well.  As each part of the right is whittled away a new pack of lies can be built, and there will most likely be some incident that demagogues can use to get the ignorant to buy the lies used to outlaw sniper rifles (or limit range or something).

The assault weapon lie is just one among many.  Remember cop-killer bullets (which had never been used to kill a cop), plastic guns, the gun show loophole, smart guns, and the slogans I referred to above: these are all slick advertising slogans, and behind every one of them is a big lie campaign so ruthless it would embarrass Josef Goebbels. 

As the saying goes, we either hang together or we hang separately.  So just say no to gun control.  Restrictions that truly are reasonable do not come from those whose proven purpose is to destroy a right.  Nothing good will come from anything with anti-gun fingerprints on it.

[Les]

And right on cue.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/dianne-feinstein-bump-stocks-senate-gun-control-bill  I can't believe how much wrong and misleading information I've seen in the last couple days.  Research........is it really that difficult.  Guess so.

[HuskerXDM]

There is no need to do any research when all you have to do is get a sound bite out for the masses to repeat for you. 

[Mntnman]

My brother sent me a screenshot of an auction that looks like GB and a bumpfire auction is up to $655.

IDIOTS!

[depserv]

I'm too much of a cheapskate to want full auto; a trip to the range costs me enough the way it is.  But that's my decision to make, not the government's.  If somebody wants to blow through that much ammo in a few seconds it's his business.  It really doesn't give him any more capability to commit mass murder than he could have even without a gun at all.  But I do wish I had a bump-fire stock to sell now that a panic seems to be unfolding.

[ILoveCats]

If keep allowing them to set subjective limits, we are screwed because they know this or will figure it out and we lose semis. Ask Australia.

“They” are not alone in drawing this line in the sand. The NRA has come out saying bump stock legality needs further review, the Trump administration spokeswoman has also said they’re looking at it, and both sides of the aisle have also said so.

This is not really subjective. In my email I set forth an objective logic test which I referred to as “indiscriminate” versus controllable fire. I lump indiscriminate / uncontrollable fire in the same category as hand grenades and RPGs; maybe useful in certain situations in a military skirmish but that’s about it.

[Mntnman]

“They” are not alone in drawing this line in the sand. The NRA has come out saying bump stock legality needs further review, the Trump administration spokeswoman has also said they’re looking at it, and both sides of the aisle have also said so.

This is not really subjective. In my email I set forth an objective logic test which I referred to as “indiscriminate” versus controllable fire. I lump indiscriminate / uncontrollable fire in the same category as hand grenades and RPGs; maybe useful in certain situations in a military skirmish but that’s about it.

But grenades and rpgs ARE useful and legal, as they should be. We shouldn’t be hammered with an NFA tax for them either. We don’t need your subjective ok on the arms we use. One time use in a crime and that’s enough to act. Caution setting that standard. Ask England and Australia.

The NRA is not really about gun rights anymore. Just a club pedaling wine and insurance. I struggle with renewing every year and regret it every time I get email or snail mail.

[Mntnman]

Let's look at it from the point of view of him only using the weapons as they were made.  I believe he would have caused even more carnage had he done so. You know the antis would be calling just as loud to banish semi-auto weapons. Would anyone here find themselves aligned with such nonsense? Sadly, I think so, but let's hope not. Sunshine patriots and Fudds gonna ruin us all.....

I am amazed we made it this far, to be honest.