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open carry in churches?
depserv:
What is state law regarding open carry in churches, with the permission of the church leadership?
Is it illegal to open carry in a church in Omaha by someone who does not have a permit? I believe it is but want to be sure. Does this illegality apply to long guns and handguns both, or can a long gun be carried legally in a church in Omaha, by a designated security person (or persons) for example?
I'm asking because there is always a possibility of copycat crimes, and the liberal cult has been waging massive hate campaigns, which seem to be bearing fruit. Is there a way an Omaha church can have armed security if no one in that church has a permit to carry? The permit to carry takes time to get is why I want to know. Those with permits to carry might be gone for the next two Sundays because of deer season, leaving only those without such permits (depending on the size of the church of course).
SemperFiGuy:
OK: Not an Attorney Here. (Just a Fairly Honest Engineering Professor, FWIW) So I'm speaking in legal generalities as a quasi-informed citizen.
Let's talk Omaha first. Because Omaha MuniCode requires either the Handgun Identification Card (HIC/Open Carry Permit) or CHP for OC.
However, NE CHP can't be used for individual OC in Omaha churches, because NE CHP rules prohibit individual CHP holders from carrying in churches (unless explicitly permitted by pastor as part of an authorized security team.)
Next, HIC OC in Omaha churches: Not aware of any express prohibition, Omaha Municode, or State Statute. (Doesn't mean none such exists.)
However, OC in ANY Church, not just Omaha, will probably draw a Great Deal of Entirely Unwanted Attention. Attendees have cell phones, especially in church. During the sermon, especially. Now, go to church (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs . Maybe a Whole SWAT Team.
Expect to have to eat dirt. Figger that the OC person may get shot. And killed. (Like the Entirely Legal CCW guy at the mall in Vegas few years ago. Cops got off OK, of course. C'mon.......the EL-CCW GUY REACHED INTO HIS WAISTBAND!!!!!!!! cops said.) Surely must be some overarching Federal Code against Waistbands, Reaching In: Hands (Left, Right, or Both).
FWIW - Even my Hillbilly Relatives back in SE Missouri left their rifles in the buckboard when attending church. No handguns anywhere; not any good for squirrel shootin'. Or settlin' feuds on the way back home after church.
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Now, OC in churches, rest of Nebraska: In the Immortal Words of DanW, whom I revere for his long support of NFOA and his excellent trapshooting abilities, there are no laws directly governing OC in Nebraska. Therefore, anything not expressly prohibited is implicitly permitted.
However: Once again, walk around (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs. Who May Shoot You.
The above narrative constitutes my 1-cents worth. Not really worth a full 2 cent$.
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Wotcha might do is contact your Pastor in the light of all recent church shootings. Make him aware of Section 018.03 of NAC 272, Section 21 and offer to help him set up a Concealed Carry Permit holder security squad for your own church.
I just did.
Cordially,
sfg
Range Mom:
SemperFi, some great points there
Adding a few cents... One of the things I am aware of is that you can take the Concealed Carry Course, receive your certificate from the class and then use that certificate to apply for the Open Carry Permit (whether or not you finalize getting the Concealed Carry Permit). That is how the city addressed how one can get the OCP when the classes for that particular permit were no longer offered.
If you are open carrying, whether or not you have the CHP, you are open carrying. I believe that CHP restrictions do not apply to you when you are open carrying. That is why I could open carry at our rally. We were not 100% sure that it would be deemed a political event (which is why we erred on the side of caution and didn't encourage concealed, but open carry). Looking at your statement as your interpretation of the CHP statute: "However, NE CHP can't be used for individual OC in Omaha churches, because NE CHP rules prohibit individual CHP holders from carrying in churches." A CHP holder is held to the CHP rules no matter the form in which they carry, which would have made my open carrying an issue at the rally. Additionally, we open carried at the NFOA-PAF fundraiser event, which absolutely was a political event, and the majority that attended, that open carried are CHP holders.
This would be really important to know for sure... Obviously CHP statute prevents concealed carry in churches. But if you are not concealed carrying, does it also apply? So someone who is absolutely confident on that matter, please add your input to this conversation and the basis for it (especially if you have a reliable reference to point to)
If you are going to ask your church, in advance, to open carry, then I would recommend your church announcing that open carry is permitted and maybe even post that notification where parishioners can see it. I have open carried in multiple cities and standard venues without the response you described. Matter of fact, I open carried at our event on the steps of the Unicameral for our 2A rally, held a great conversation with members of the Nebraska State Patrol before it started, and it was as casual and relaxed. I have never been accosted by LEOs in any way, nor do the other routine open carriers I know. Totally understand your point of view/preference/caution and advice and I respect it, but my experience differs. To each their own :)
hilowe:
--- Quote from: SemperFiGuy on November 08, 2017, 11:56:32 AM ---
Now, OC in churches, rest of Nebraska: In the Immortal Words of DanW, whom I revere for his long support of NFOA and his excellent trapshooting abilities, there are no laws directly governing OC in Nebraska. Therefore, anything not expressly prohibited is implicitly permitted.
However: Once again, walk around (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs. Who May Shoot You.
The above narrative constitutes my 1-cents worth. Not really worth a full 2 cent$.
--- End quote ---
One caveat to the rest of Nebraska is the wonderful city of Blair. No open carry per city ordinance. No if's, and's, or but's is my understanding.
SemperFiGuy:
Trish...................
--- Quote ---...my experience differs. To each their own...
--- End quote ---
We speak the same language. Same Tribal Dialect, actually.
sfg
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