was i wrong at the cabelas counter?? (purchase denied)

[kracin]

i was under the assumption that purchasing as a gift for your spouse/family member required no paperwork on their part, guy at the counter said my wife would have to fill out the paperwork since i was buying it and gifting it to her.. this seemed wrong.

69-2403 shows that a purchase permit is not required for a transfer to a spouse, and i was purchasing for myself with intent to gift to my spouse who was present.

(1) Except as provided in this section and section 69-2409, a person shall not purchase, lease, rent, or receive transfer of a handgun until he or she has obtained a certificate in accordance with section 69-2404. Except as provided in this section and section 69-2409, a person shall not sell, lease, rent, or transfer a handgun to a person who has not obtained a certificate.

(2) The certificate shall not be required if:

(e) The transfer is between a person and his or her spouse, sibling, parent, child, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or grandparent;

is it just cabelas being extra cautious? or did my wife really need to have a purchase permit for me to buy it with intent to gift it to her while at the counter? the way the guy was telling me he had to handle it sounded like he was going to fill it out like a straw purchase (i pay, but she does the paperwork, etc)

[HuskerXDM]

You're not wrong, it's just easier to say that you are buying the gun for you... then give it as a gift to your wife.  Gun Counter Joe isn't, typically, the most knowledgeable guy...

[SemperFiGuy]

Anyone offering commentary on interpretation of the law to the specifics of this particular case will be engaged in the practice of law.  And therefore should be licensed at the bar in the State of Nebraska.  Otherwise, they might be considered to be practicing law without a law license.

For the record, I am clearly not.  And therefore will not comment to any specific interpretation for this case.

Now, We do have Nebraska law, which is laid out in the original post in this thread.  And Nebraska law is one governing consideration, but just one.   There is one more biggie:  Federal law.   Some insights are provided here:

Is a Straw Purchase Illegal? Depends Who You Ask. - The Trace
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/12/straw-purchase-supreme-court-san-bernardino

The actual intent of the purchaser at the time of purchase appears to be the prime consideration in this Federal case discussed above.  In general, it is not necessary for the end recipient of the firearm to be an illegal or ineligible recipient in order to constitute a straw purchase.   Please note that the 5-4 SCOTUS decision was rendered in 2014, which is eight years after the Nebraska CHP law was placed on the books.

FWIW,

sfg

[kracin]

meh, the 2014 at regulation guide is crappy, in the 04' it shows clear examples

    Where  a  person  purchases  a  firearm
with  the  intent  of  making  a  gift  of  the 
firearm  to  another  person,  the  person 
making  the  purchase  is  indeed  the  true 
purchaser.  There is no straw purchaser
in  these  instances.    In  the  above  exam-
ple,  if  Mr.  Jones  had  bought  a  firearm 
with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
as  a  birthday  present,  Mr.  Jones  could 
lawfully   have   completed   Form   4473.     
The  use  of  gift  certificates  would  also 
not  fall  within  the  category  of  straw  pur-
chases.    The  person  redeeming  the  gift 
certificate would be the actual purchaser
of  the  firearm  and  would  be  properly 
reflected as such in the dealer's records.

the 2014 case where obama-admin/justices railed a guy for making a straw purchase for his uncle was legit (abramski), because he received the money for the gun 3 days before buying it for his uncle. (the change was that it was still illegal to use someone else's money even if they weren't prohibited)

my wife is not a prohibited person, she wasn't giving me money to purchase it, and i was the actual purchaser of the firearm.

either way, best just to not tell them i guess... who woulda thought, no wonder criminals don't have a hard time, only honest people don't lie on forms....

[SemperFiGuy]

It Gets Hard to Breathe with that Constant Squeeze.

Here are the instructions for Question 11a as shown on the back side of the 2016 Form 4473:

Question 11.a.  Actual Transferee/Buyer:
   "A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party.  A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm."

Might turn over the form and show it to the Cabela fella.
Or just go to the new DE Guns Store just outside Lincoln.   They have the best prices just about anywhere.


sfg

[kracin]

It Gets Hard to Breathe with that Constant Squeeze.

Here are the instructions for Question 11a as shown on the back side of the 2016 Form 4473:

Question 11.a.  Actual Transferee/Buyer:
   "A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona
fide gift for a third party.  A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm."

Might turn over the form and show it to the Cabela fella.
Or just go to the new DE Guns Store just outside Lincoln.   They have the best prices just about anywhere.


sfg

unfortunately i've got 250 cabelas bucks burning a hole in my pocket for a ruger lcp2. after that i'll cancel the card probably since DE has been good to me before.

[NE Bull]

You shoulda heard the exchange at Walmart on Black Friday/ Thursday, (whatever it is these days)
A couple wanted to purchase a (.22) Rifle for their son for Christmas.  After hounding them a bit, counter guy learned son was 18, so "He would need to come in and fill out the paperwork because it has to be registered to him." yadda yadda. Then had the gal to ask if they were legal (hispanic accents) or had a green card!! (they were US citizens)  I WILL NOT even buy ammo there if he's working, and he knows it.  ( Later same guy wouldn't even let me look at a box of ammo unless I was buying it. "Had too many issues" ) Any way I caught them in the next aisle and told them to go to another Walmart and just purchase the rifle as theirs and gift it to their son and Merry Christmas!
Some counter folk are on a power trip, or make gun ownership seem harder than it is, or make you feel like a criminal for purchasing!   
Rant over. 

[RLMoeller]

How did you answer question 11-a?  Are you the actual buyer / transferee?   If you answered no, the FFL MUST deny the transaction.  If you answered YES, things should have gone well. 

You can purchase the gun with the intent of it being a gift for your wife because in that case you are the actual buyer.  There are a lot of legal issues surrounding purchasing for another person, but it sounds like your scenario is one that should not have raised any flags unless you you marked question 11-a NO.

[Atrus]

A couple of members in my family have run into this same problem when buying firearms as Christmas gifts. One store declined to sell my brother a rifle after the clerk overheard my brother asking my father (the intended recipient) a question about his preference (even though both were there and both had concealed carry permits). My family now follows the policy of buying a gift card to the store in the amount of the firearm and gifting that and then letting the recipient go fill out the paperwork.

[StuartJ]

Just don't trust your GPS to take you to Deguns on a football Saturday.  Waze GPS app on my phone tried to direct me past the stadium during a game.

[shooter]

 I take hiway 6 west. then when you get to  the entrance to millard lumber take a left ( south) follow that a few miles  till you get to O street, then a mile west, no city traffic,

[AAllen]

Cabelas policy is that if the gift recipient is in the store they need to do the form. So if you are buying a gift just do it when she is not there.

[SemperFiGuy]

Cabelas policy is that if the gift recipient is in the store they need to do the form.

Appears to me to be an illegal act, but that's between the Folks Involved, Cabelas, and the BATFE.

FWIW

sfg