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Liberal Gun Club

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Atrus:

--- Quote from: Mali on January 01, 2019, 03:23:32 PM ---I would ask Atrus to please take the time to speak with the members of the Board of Directors to help us reach out to others who don't agree with us politically but do believe that the Second Amendment is real. We want and need your input to make a difference in this state.

--- End quote ---

As I was asked to give my feedback on how to attract more people like me to the group, I’ve written out some thoughts (mostly for the board, but feel free to chime in). It’s moderately lengthy and you can take from it what you want. I’m not really the type of person who likes to argue on the Internet, so if you disagree with what I’ve written, that’s cool, we’ll just agree to disagree.

I’m something of an anomaly, but in line with the people interviewed in the article linked in the original post (I would join a club like that if there were one local). I’m solidly liberal, and that’s as much as I’m going to say on that, because I’m not interested in serving as a spokesperson for “Liberaldom.” Despite that, I fully support Second Amendment rights. Yes, that’s correct. How is that possible? Mostly because I had an “in” during my formative years. My father is an Army veteran who is in the “vote guns first” crowd. I grew up thinking “the reloading room” was just another room every house had. We’ve always had a family firing range on the farm. I got my first single-shot .22 at the age of 8 (I was allowed to keep the rifle in my room, but the bolt stayed in the gun cabinet). I did competition rifle shooting in high school. My father and brother were in the very first wave of CCW applicants, and today serve as range officers for local competitions (not locally; they’re not on this forum) and spend most weekends hunting. Over Christmas, we sighted in my new 6.5 Creedmoor and then spend an afternoon plinking at 500 yards with it and my father’s new Seekins, then taught ourselves how to use a sight pusher and replaced all the sites on our EDC guns with tritium fiber optic sights (my idea), and then I thanked them by doing custom spray paint jobs (as the most artistic in the family) on my brother’s newest shotgun and a couple of ARs (I can do a pretty good Kryptek copy using laundry bags and leaves). Which is to say, it was a lot of firearm stuff. Then I came back to Omaha and, apart from my EDC piece, put everything back in the gun safe and forgot about it. Why?

Because all of my personal friends are liberal like me, but unlike me they haven’t had any personal exposure to firearms. Most of them have never seen a firearm in person other than on a LEO’s belt, and certainly have never held or shot one (or even worse their exposure consists of someone they know being a victim of a crime involving a firearm). Everything they “know” about firearms comes from Hollywood and the media. To them, firearms are loud, scary, radioactive things, and it’s not their fault they believe that because it’s the only exposure they’ve had. They’ve never had “positive” exposure, so of course they think like they do. I’ve made some attempts to be a positive exposure over the years. I’ve posted on Facebook about how certain legislation works (I title them my “Friendly Liberally Who Happens To Know Something About Firearms” posts). I’ve invited them to ask questions. I’ve invited them to the range. I’ve had some luck with a couple of them. One recently inherited some firearms from their (I’m intentionally using genderless pronouns) father and I’ve walked them through the aspects of registration and cleaning and selling, and have actually convinced them to take a basic safety class and *maybe* down the road a CCW class. We’re going to the range next month (ask yourself honestly, how many liberals have *you* gotten to the range?). Another one asked some questions about getting a firearm for home defense. And another has allowed me to teach their kids about firearm handling and safety. But here’s the thing. They know me personally, and I’ve been very hands off and focused on advice on practical matters rather than arguments about the Second Amendment as a whole. And I still have limited luck, because, like all humans, their beliefs were set during their formative years and it takes a *lot* to change that. You have to just put it out there in a nonjudgmental way and let them come to you (like fishing). You have to convince them to separate out that *one* issue and consider it on its own (not in relation to anything else) and give them positive feedback the entire time so that it’s them changing their minds willingly.

How does that relate to the group? To put it bluntly, none of those friends would feel welcome here, and I wouldn’t give them the link to the site because not only would they not like it, but they would reevaluate taking my advice on other issues. I survive here only because I’ve been having these same discussions with my family for 20 years and I’ve learned to just tune out the political parts, and I find the group a useful “hard” resource for things like legislative updates and FFL recommendations (if it was only political discussions I wouldn’t be here). When you’re questioning some specific deeply held belief, you recoil from criticism of *other* beliefs from anonymous strangers. I know to some of you there is no distinction between firearms and other political issues, and that’s your prerogative; again, I’m not arguing politics on the Internet. But no one convinces another adult to completely abandon their full belief structure, especially not strangers, so you have to pick your battles. You could potentially get new members who would be open to firearms not being “scary things that could kill you at any moment,” but not if you also expect them to change their stances on reproductive rights and environmentalism and gender issues at the same time. That’s just not happening. So if you want my honest feedback on how to get more people like me, you’d have to limit the group’s focus specifically to firearm issues and drop all political discussions on everything *but* that. I know for some of you that’s not possible, but them’s the breaks. Tying the group to wider-ranging politics in general is self-selecting for people who already agree with those politics. (I’m not saying members of the group couldn’t have those discussions on other forums, but having the NFOA as a group appear to endorse them is just poisoning the well). You’d also need to have a “positive exposure” vibe. “Hey, liberals, come handle some firearms in person and tell us why you’re scared of them. We’ll just listen. No judgements. Range time on us.” Etc. In my opinion, optimally your future path would be to convince non-conservatives that firearms are *not* actually a conservative/liberal issue (I personally don’t think they are, and judging by the article I’m not alone), and encourage that idea to filter from the liberal populace into their potential political candidates so that you could get liberal candidates who might disagree with you on everything else but would leave the Second Amendment alone. That’s probably a pipe dream. But so is thinking that liberals are going to spontaneously become conservatives after an online argument.

That’s my take, from someone who has personally spoken at length with people on both sides. Take it as you will.

greg58:
I do belong to a brand specific gun forum where all talk of Politics is centered into a single sub-section that you need to specifically request entry to.
I have chosen to not go there, and find it refreshing to be able to talk guns in an open forum where information/opinions are expressed freely and politely. Bad apples are removed quickly, after maybe one or two warnings. The Moderators there do a great job.

Greg

Jito463:

--- Quote from: Atrus on January 02, 2019, 03:18:26 PM ---That’s my take, from someone who has personally spoken at length with people on both sides. Take it as you will.
--- End quote ---

I appreciate you adding your thoughts to this thread, and please feel free to add more thoughts in the future.  I would like to offer another viewpoint that may help you understand why some of us conservatives are so into politics outside of just the 2nd amendment.

For me at least, it's not even really about gun ownership.  It's about freedom.  I don't consider myself a libertarian, though I do lean that way in some respects.  My entire viewpoint of gun ownership is from the perspective that we are free people, and if we don't exercise our freedoms then we will lose them.  In other words, gun ownership is not my reason for being here, I'm here and a gun owner because of my stance on freedom.  And as an advocate for freedom, that naturally extends to other areas in my life.

The reason so many of us - myself included - consider the 2nd so important, is because without that right we can't defend the other rights and keep them from being infringed upon.  In many ways, this war against the 2nd amendment by the left (I usually don't refer to them as liberals anymore) is the front lines of the war against all our other rights.  If we fail in defending the 2nd, it's not a stretch to assume our other rights will fall thereafter.

In conclusion, I don't talk about other political beliefs because I'm trying to be contentious - nor do I truly believe I'll change someone's mind in an online discussion - but because they naturally flow from my belief in freedom and liberty.  I realize that we have differing opinions on said freedoms, but I hope this gives you an insight as to why (at least for me) my beliefs that I espouse extend well beyond gun ownership.

SemperFiGuy:

--- Quote --- If we fail in defending the 2nd, it's not a stretch to assume our other rights will fall thereafter.
--- End quote ---

No stretch at all.   Actually, it's as clear as church bell on a still, crystal morning: 

The Left's grim goal of total subservience to the Central Government is only achievable by removing all conflicting beliefs and neutralizing all means of resisting.

It ain't rocket science.

sfg

Mali:
Atrus,
Thank you very much for your reply. It may not seem like it but it certainly does help with my understanding of the situation from your side of the discussion and helps with how we can better reach "your side".

Thank you again and please do not hesitate to continue to post. You input and your thoughts are not falling on deaf ears.

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