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Should gun permits be easier?

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sjwsti:


--- Quote from: Mike M. on May 04, 2010, 07:23:41 PM ---I think Ne. CCW training requirements are fair, except for the cost, it should be less expensive.

Oh sure now you decide the training should be cheaper. Just my luck after taking the class the instructor decides the cost should be less.
Just kidin ya Shawn. You did a great job and taught me alot. Thanks.

--- End quote ---

I meant the State fees were way too high, the Instructor fees are not nearly enough.  ;)

- Shawn

DaveB:

--- Quote from: quixnet on May 06, 2010, 04:01:32 AM ---Though I really like him, I just couldn't disagree with Sen. Christensen more on this one. Do we really want a large number of CHP holders out there in our future with little or no knowledge and a serious lack of training. Some of the students that we see are down right un-safe when they first come to us. Seldom do they have a clear understanding of the laws in general much less know when lethal force is justified and when it is not. Rarely do they have a clear understanding of the level of responsibility required when carrying in public etc etc etc.... Carrying a firearm in public and all if its ramifications has little to do hunters safety training.

Application Form
List your firearms experience:

"I've been around guns all my life"  (translated.... 2500 hours playing Grand Theft Auto or watching gun fights on tv growing up)
"
"Hunters Safety when I was a kid"

"I'm an avid duck hunter"

CCW training maybe the only training most of us ever get. It's designed to protect a new CHP holder from his/her own ignorance. I hate to be the bearer of bad news for some but some bad guys have had training. How will the new CHP know what it is they don't know? How can we be sure the new guy knows how to interact with law enforcement both in a regular trafic stop or in a life changing critical incident and so on?

A lack of knowledge and preparation for carrying a concealed firearm may get the new CHP holder, a family member or an innocent bystander injured or killed. I'm the last person that would want to prevent some one from having the ability to defend themselves. But what good is it if you don't know what you are doing and you end up unintentionally hurting someone innocent or yourself. Yes we have our 2nd ammendment rights but we also have a right to a one way trip to prison and financial ruin if we make a mistake. It would be interesting to hear Mr. Massad Ayoob's take on our discussion here.

 I think its more a matter of priorities. For example some firearm owners will buy a fairly expensive firearm but dont think spending money on a simple safe to keep it out of the hands of children or unauthorized adults is a priority.

We have a responsibility to ourselves, our loved ones and the general public when it comes to building and maintaining our skills and knowledge of the use of firearms for self-defense. These skills are perishable, we should take every opportunity we can to train and continually strive to improve on our knowledge and skills. We would be foolish to think that our rite to carry concealed firearms could not be seriously diminished or lost if enough of us screw up out there and give the antis and the media what they want.

Our credibility as permit holders is important! Good training often requires time and money. Do we really think we are doing anyone a favor leaving it up to everyone to just figure it out? Will they train if they are not required to? Christensen said ?common sense? would dictate that people obtaining handguns to carry would obtain or have the proper safety training. Many come through our CCW courses with little or no prior training or experience. As is the case now, quite a few permit holders will not even bother to practice once in awhile at the range.

I wonder if new permit holders having less invested in training, certification, etc. would have the same respect for our still fairly new rite to carry in Nebraska? Would they have any idea or even care what it took to get it past. If it required little effort or expense, would they care that much if they did something to loose their permit. What they do out there in the public's eye will reflect on all of us as permit holders. We've been fortunate so far.

These courses are often what cultivates interest in further learning. They get a taste of what opportunities are out there for further training, sport shooting, NFOA assocation etc.

--- End quote ---

It sounds like the 2nd ammendment doesn't apply then. Nowhere does the right to bear arms require training. Actually, gun permits should not be required.

I think everyone should want to have some training, just that it should not be the law. Maybe training should be required in high school, then everyone would have some training.

DanClrk51:

--- Quote from: quixnet on May 06, 2010, 04:01:32 AM ---I wonder if new permit holders having less invested in training, certification, etc. would have the same respect for our still fairly new rite to carry in Nebraska?
--- End quote ---

Right here you are telling me that the "Right to Carry in Nebraska" is a newly created right. As if the 2nd Amendment never applied. We have always had the right to carry arms. The 2007 Concealed Handgun Permit law never introduced a new right to carry. It only undid some wrong that the state was doing by banning concealed weapons. In my view the state is still violating the 2nd Amendment by discriminating who can carry a gun based on $, training, certain misdeameanor crimes, and so forth. It is absolutely unconstitutional. There should be no state mandated permit of any sort to carry a weapon of any kind. We should not have to ask for permission to exercise our God given rights. Training is good and needed but it is not the Government's business to dictate that if you don't pay $100 to them and force you to take a $80-$175 class you can't exercise your God given right of self defense and carry a concealed weapon. Like I said before. If we care so much about people having no experience than firearm safety classes should be made mandatory in high school. That way everyone has received training.

quixnet:
reposted from CCWNE....

lindh
Just my humble opin, but I think quixnet is right, particularly when it comes to understanding the implications of a shoot and a detailed understanding of present law.  Even in a "good shoot", with a bystander injured or killed and - there goes the ball game.   There are not just a few cops who found this out the hard way. 

I'm a firm believer in 2ndA, but I say - what ever it takes to preserve what we've fought for and won... 
When you think about it, we've come a long long ways in the last 4 years. 



Scooby Doo
I still think it stinks that the poorest people living in the crappiest neighborhoods, the people that need it the most, can't afford to be legal. So, do any of you trainers offer discounts for the poor? Just how dedicated are you at increasing the numbers of CHP holders?
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Point well taken Scoob. I am aware of other instructors that do. Speaking for myself, absolutely! Look, Scoob has hit on something very near and dear here (for lack of a better term). This is something we have done and will continue to do. It's really the kind of stuff that makes it all worth while. If you know someone, put them in touch with us. Even if they just need some help with the basics and don't plan on getting a permit or more advanced training down the road.

Last summer I worked down at the city's old Magorian Range part-time here in Lincoln. I was paid but volunteered a lot of time as well. It's not unusual to take someone that maybe doesn't like being around guns in general and with a little help and some guidance... they're hooked! You can change someones whole attitude with respect to firearms.

I would like to tell you all a story about a young mother I met recently. She certainly doesn't have much. She has a very horrific past that may very well come back to visit her in the next 5-10 years. Law enforcement is aware of it, she has documented threats on her life. She has gone to some great lengths to hide herself and her children's whereabouts. I won't get specific or some on here will no doubt know who I'm referring to. All I'll say is yes, I'm with Scoob on this. I will be there when I can and I think can safely speak for my partner and for the majority of us that choose to teach others.

One thing I would like to mention. Our CCW course is very thorough. If a student struggles, we will work with them. That being said we will not certify anyone who deminstrates poor character, a lack of good judgement or is just plain not safe!

quixnet:
DanClrk51
"In my view the state is still violating the 2nd Amendment by discriminating who can carry a gun based on $, training, certain misdeameanor crimes, and so forth. It is absolutely unconstitutional."

DaveB
"Actually, gun permits should not be required."
_____________________________________________________________________________

"certain misdeameanor crimes, and so forth" Ok... seriously? So this is next?

"There should be no state mandated permit of any sort to carry a weapon of any kind"

It appears the courts disagree. They have sided the with the federal and state governments ruling our 2nd amendment rights are not without some reasonable limits.

So after we get this training stuff flushed next we need to do away with that pesky back ground check/mental illness crapola. Hmm... well thats one opinion... I guess if thats were we are going for next.

"One thing I would like to mention. Our courses are very thorough. If a student struggles, we will work with them. That being said we will not certify anyone who deminstrates poor character, a lack of good judgement or is just plain not safe!"

I thought I would save someone the time here and quote myself... I know... who are we to judge? I would simply say... someone needs to. I'm sure that remark won't be well received either.  Good luck guys!
 
P.S.
DanClrk51
"Right here you are telling me that the "Right to Carry in Nebraska" is a newly created right. As if the 2nd Amendment never applied. We have always had the right to carry arms"
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No wouldn't say that, I agree with you Dan but that was the law here in Nebraska. We could loose it again! We need to be responsible and smart about this thereby protecting the gains we've made as we move forward.

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