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Should gun permits be easier?

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DaveB:
Training should be an option; it should not be a requirement. Most trainers tell how they are doing this to assist the gun owners and protect their rights when in the reality it is all about the money. The thing that turns a lot of people off is the cost of training. Get 20 people in for a day at a couple hundred apiece; it's a good day for the trainer, regardless whether anyone actually learns anything or not. Instructors need to be compensated for their time, but if it is truly to protect our rights, they should be reasonable with the charges. I was brought up with guns, did a lot of training in the Army too. That does not mean I know anything and would not like some more training, but I refuse to and can not afford to pay the prices for it. But still, the last thing anyone wants to do is to try and deny me my rights.

If a lot of training was required in the 40's we'd all be speaking German now and not worrying about it!

Chris Z:

--- Quote from: DaveB on May 09, 2010, 12:06:55 AM ---Training should be an option; it should not be a requirement. Most trainers tell how they are doing this to assist the gun owners and protect their rights when in the reality it is all about the money. The thing that turns a lot of people off is the cost of training. Get 20 people in for a day at a couple hundred apiece; it's a good day for the trainer, regardless whether anyone actually learns anything or not. Instructors need to be compensated for their time, but if it is truly to protect our rights, they should be reasonable with the charges. I was brought up with guns, did a lot of training in the Army too. That does not mean I know anything and would not like some more training, but I refuse to and can not afford to pay the prices for it. But still, the last thing anyone wants to do is to try and deny me my rights.


--- End quote ---


You have the option to carry a concealed handgun in Nebraska without going through the training, and getting a CHP. It is under NE Revised Statute 28-1202 section 1b.   http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1202


As to the cost of the training, I will weigh in on that since I am a trainer.... When I first started teaching these classes I charged $100 per person. I got into because I have a great passion for handguns and concealed carry. I didn't get into this business to feed my family. My initial estimates of expenses showed that I would make a decent amount for my time after paying all of the expenses as long as I had a decent sized group of folks. I do it because I love this issue and am passionate about it, and yes I make money doing it.

After a couple of months of actually doing the training, and realizing how much work and all of the expenses I was incurring, I had to raise my rate to $125...... At $100 it was not worth what I was having to go through to spend all the time required on these classes. (Keep in mind, it isn't just an 9 hour class... I spend many hours a week, answering emails, phone calls, and all the related paperwork that comes along with this).

After a daylong CHP class, I feel like I have been bulldozed. It is ALOT of work, not only the classroom portion, but spending a couple hours out on the range in the afternoon. I have to deal with people of varying experience levels. Some are experienced and this class is cake walk, some need lots of extra attention. I have dealt with people that are plain and simple unsafe with their firearms...... And it is my job in these classes to teach them how to change their poor handling habits. I have had dropped guns, loaded guns pointed at me, been swept, you name it.

I charge $125 for a quality training class. $150 to add Utah training certification on (which is extra classroom work, extra handouts and paperwork, and requires me to go to Utah every couple years and re-certify). My students have the option of doing just the NE, or completing the UT and NE in the same day.

Some Instructors charge $125 to $175 and they teach an old stale, boring, dry NRA Basic pistol class, and hand out a copy of NE laws at the end of class. I would be ****ed if I paid that much for a class and got the NRA outdated, dry, stale materials. I have a custom developed curriculum, book and multimedia presentations that are a compilation of years of my own training and research.

There was one Instructor who started out as "Mr Do-Good" with good intentions of helping gun owners. He charged about $35 to take the class... This paid for the NRA basic pistol book, certificates, handouts, etc, etc... He did not have to pay rent on a range or classroom (those were given to him for free). I don't know if he had insurance or not....... He started teaching classes and quickly realized that it was much more work than he imagined. Then he had the state patrol come in and audit him a couple of times because of complaints on the poor quality of his class....... All this time he ran around bad mouthing me and my partner for "gouging" people. Guess what? Mr Do-Good no longer teaches, because he realized he couldn't teach a quality class and charge nothing for it.

A lot of the money I make from teaching classes gets invested right back in to my program so I can provide an even better class. I put this money towards getting more training myself so I can improve my classes even more, I spend a lot on different holsters, props, guns, etc.... so I have actual examples to see in my class.

If you want quality training, do your research.... Figure out who is teaching you, what they are teaching you, what their experience or qualifications are.... And then decide if it is worth it for you.

And if you don't feel you need training..... Then don't pursue it. Carry under the statute I quoted above and take your chances. Either way stay safe out there.

sjwsti:
Great discussion with excellent posts. Of course we all have a God given right to defend our lives. Living in America we have the right to bear arms. Also by living in a free society we cant and shouldnt legislate responsibility. It falls on our shoulders as individuals to do all we can to be safe and resposible gun owners. My hope is that more of us will seek out quality training. 

Sometimes I forget that for most people shooting is a hobby, with self defense a secondary consideration. Statisticly speaking the vast majority of us will never be a victim of a violent crime, so why worry about extra training?

For me this is a lifestyle. A Warrior lifestyle. I just spent 8 hours yesterday training knife combatives with a roomfull of Law Enforcement and Civillian Warriors. And, like everyone else in the class, Ive got the sore back, joints and bruises to prove it.

So whats that worth DaveB ? I put in the time, the blood and sweat (literally) And you expect me to just give that away to you. Sorry, my time and effort is worth something. Devin Crinklaw taught yesterdays class (which was excellent BTW), tuition was around $100, I charge $110 for a seven hour Advanced Pistol Class. You want to tell me that is out of line ? If I were to fill every class I schedule now untill I retire I wont get back what I have put in. Want to know what a good day for me is ? Its when I get someone like you in class and I demonstrate a technique or explain a concept and I see the lightbulb switch on in the students eyes. And I know that I just taught that person something that may save their life. Ater I pay the Range, take out Uncle Sams bit, most people would think what I was doing was a waste of time.

Here are some facts about gunfighting.

- If you see the bad guy coming a mile away, have time to formulate a plan then simply execute that plan from a position of cover . You will most likely be sucessfull with little to no training.

- If you happen to be caught in the middle of a violent robbery and the bad guy or guys arent commited to murder or show up with an unloaded gun. You will most likely be sucessfull with some basic training or a competition background.

- But if you are confronted at close range by an evil psycopath bent on murder, someone who isnt afraid of being shot, stabbed or hit. Without advanced training you will most likely fail. Your only hope will be to die before you see what he is going to do to your family. This is the guy I train for and what motivates me to work very hard, and who I teach my students to fight.

You are certainly free to play the odds. Its all about personal choices. Me, Im heading to the gym. Regards.

- Shawn

Rob B:
 I had been shooting pistol for 30 yrs. I did all the internet reading on CCW for 2 months before I took my class. I had to save for 6 pay periods to have the money. Do I begrudge the instructor his due? Absolutely NOT! I learn a boatload, remembered things I had forgot and thank the instructor for his time that may some day save my life or someone I love.
 I agree we have,and always had, the right to own and carry arms, but in this world you have to abide by laws. If the law is bad it will sooner or later change,work for it!
 I want more training, it will come as I can save the money,do I want it for free? NO something worked for just means more and is remembered and learned better.
JMHO

DanClrk51:
All we are saying is that its not the States business. If the State has that power then the State has the power to take it away. Also it doesn't take a genius or well trained person to aim a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger....the criminals do it all the time. 60 years ago little kids were running around with guns and hunting animals for food by them selves such as Mr. McDonald in the pending US Supreme Court case. Nobody gave a damn then, and nobody should give a damn now. I also bet there were accidents. The difference back then was, parents cared about their kids and took the time to teach them about guns and to respect guns...of course it also was a necessity then. But the biggest reason why people fear and abhor guns today so much is the lies of the media. The media has driven this irrational fear into peoples minds which has caused people to change their thinking and put restrictions on guns. The problem is most of what the media spouts are lies and if you tell a lie long enough it becomes the truth. At least to the people that let themselves be brainwashed because they have not educated themselves by researching the issue and discovering the truth.

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