Flying Questions

[mcm80]

Hi everyone!  I'm new here but did search for this topic but didn't find it.  I apoligize in advance if this has been discussed.

Over the next two years I will be traveling a lot between Omaha and Tucson.  I know that we have reciprocity there with CCW and in every state I would drive through.  My question is surrounding the idea of flying with the pistol.  I have contacted airlines and their policy is easy to follow.  I have to check the gun, it has to be locked, I have to have the only key, magazines have to be empty, yadda yadda yadda.  What do I do as I approach the airport though?  Act all casual that I am carrying a gun in my suitcase?  I obviously notify the person at check in but anything else?

Has anyone here done it?  What has been your experience?

[Chris Z]

Done it a lot. Never a problem.... Just make sure you know the laws where you are going (ie. don't take a handgun to Chicago or New York).

It is not a big deal and the counter attendants do this all the time. Just keep it in your suitcase and out of everyones view, you will be fine.

[Ronvandyn]

I work for the TSA and have a bit of knowledge in this area. 

At OMA your guns are GOING to be searched.  You can ask the airline to let you observe the search, the TSA does not have a problem with that.  If you decide to use a lock other than the one on your hard-sided case and it is not a TSA lock, then be sure you have the officers place the lock on the case and then watch as they verify it is locked. 

Traveling with firearms is not really a problem as long as you follow the rules.  You "can" have rounds in your magazines, but the mags have to be put in a mag holster or something similar that will not allow them to fall out.  They also cannot be inserted into the weapon (duh). 

One last thing.  Do not, DO NOT, travel to New York with weapons, unless you have no intention of attempting to fly out.  Flying into New York (the state as well as the city) is not a problem, trying to fly out with one is going to get you a visit to the local hoose-gow. 

Ron

[Chris Z]

Ron-

Let's say I am flying to Atlanta, with a connection in Chicago. And let's say I'm stuck flying United... And my flight gets cancelled, now I'm stuck in Chicago for the night and I have to take possession of my checked bag with a handgun in it... Now what do I do? Only criminals and politicians can have handguns in Chicago...

[PhilK]

An interesting article on Chris'  question:
http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpected-flight-delay-hotel-stay-criminal-prosecution-for-gun-possession/

An unfortunate story, detailed in Revell v. Port Authority (3d Cir. 2010): Gregg C. Revell was flying from Salt Lake City to Allentown, Pennsylvania, via Minneapolis and Newark. He had an unloaded gun legally checked in his luggage, which was supposed to meet him at Allentown.

Supposed to. In fact, the flight to Newark was late, so Revell missed his connection. He booked himself on the next flight, but the airline changed those plans. He was supposed to get on a bus, but his luggage didn?t get on the bus with him. He found the luggage, but the bus had left, so he had to stay overnight at the hotel, with his luggage.

Aha! That?s where the crime came in. The Firearms Owners? Protection Act protected Revell on the plane, and would have protected him on the bus. But the moment the luggage came into his hands or otherwise became ?readily accessible? to him outside a car ? here, when he got the luggage to go to the hotel, but it would have also happened if he had gotten the luggage to put it into the trunk of a rental car ? he violated New Jersey law, which requires a permit to possess a handgun (and which bans the hollow-point ammunition that Revell also had in a separate locked container in his luggage). Revell was arrested when he checked in with the luggage at Newark Airport, and said (as he was supposed to) that he had an unloaded gun in a locked case in his luggage; he then spent four days in jail until he was released on bail. Eventually the New Jersey prosecutor dropped the charges against him, but Revell didn?t get the gun and his other property back until almost three years later.

Revell sued, and lost; the Third Circuit concluded that once he took the luggage in hand in New Jersey, it became ?readily accessible,? and the FOPA immunity was lost. And this is indeed a sensible reading of the statutory text:


Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver?s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

So what do you if this happens to you?


Stranded gun owners like Revell have the option of going to law enforcement representatives at an airport or to airport personnel before they retrieve their luggage. The careful owner will do so and explain his situation, requesting that his firearm and ammunition be held for him overnight.[18]

[Footnote 18:] Of course, this suggestion leaves unanswered the question of what the gun owner should do if the law enforcement officers decline to assist him. It may be hoped, however, that officers will not compound a blameless owner?s problems in that way.

Hope does spring eternal, but I suspect that airport police and airport staff aren?t going to be willing to hold people?s luggage for them overnight, especially when it contains a gun. And of course the airport police or staff would then have to personally check in the luggage for the owner, since the owner can?t take it in hand without losing the FOPA immunity.

So watch out when you travel with your gun in checked luggage. If your flight gets routed to a different city, or you have to stay overnight at one of the stops, you could be arrested. Or if you drive across country but your car breaks down, and you need to move the luggage to another car, you could likewise be violating the law (though you?d be less likely to be caught, since you have no obligation declare your gun when you switch cars the way you do when you get on a plane). FOPA gives you a good deal of protection on your travels ? but, as Mr. Revell learned, not complete protection.
,

[Ronvandyn]

Ron-

Let's say I am flying to Atlanta, with a connection in Chicago. And let's say I'm stuck flying United... And my flight gets cancelled, now I'm stuck in Chicago for the night and I have to take possession of my checked bag with a handgun in it... Now what do I do? Only criminals and politicians can have handguns in Chicago...

That?s going to depend on the laws in Chicago.  I can speak about the stuff that the TSA requires, but not the states.  You might be able to try asking the airport police about it, I know that some airports will keep a weapon for you until you can get back on a plane but there are no guarantees.  You could end up going home without. 

There are always some gray areas that one just cannot avoid.  Sucks I know, but with so many peoples fingers in the pie it is unavoidable.

Ron

[ranger04]

I have been pondering flying with a firearm also. I am going to Pittsburg in August with a flight change in Chicago, then I will be doing some driving to Virginia and Ohio. (gotta see the Grandkids) . Any suggestions? I so do not want to go to Chicago but if I want to get to Penn, looks like I have to.

[Chris Z]

Well I had an interesting experience this past weekend while traveling.... I was on a road trip through several states (including Illinois), legally transporting my handgun unloaded in a case in the trunk... Per federal law.

I had to catch a flight out of Midway Airport to come home, and my original plan for where the gun would go... Had to change, so I was stuck without a way to get my gun home.

So I called Chicago PD at Midway airport and asked if it is possible to check a handgun with TSA for my flight home.... Because of their big handgun ban and all..... I was shocked when the Officer told me, "yeah, no problem... Just follow the TSA rules and you will be fine".

So needless to say, I was a little nervous going into Midway with a handgun, hoping I would make it home.... And unbelievably it was very smooth. The SW Airlines clerk said my G27 was "cute".... And the TSA lady who went through my suitcase with me watching on, was totally cool about everything.

I am still in total shock.... I actually flew out of Chicago successfully with a handgun!

[Roper]

i just checked my Glock for the first time-I was surprised how easy it was.  I usually fly out of Lincoln - really smooth process.

[unfy]

Congrats Chris! 


I have flown with firearms to/from Florida and California several times.  Generally, use a TSA lock or similar, and you'll be fine.  One of the news stands at Epply sells the locks as well.

"Advertising" that you're carrying a weapon while approaching the curb or check in area is fine.  It lets everyone know what you're doing and avoids any surprises (LE / security types hate surprises).  And by advertising, I mean having the weapons in a typical gun case .  You won't get bum rushed or anything, and acting suspicious is a good way to get to play 20 questions.  Just think opposite mentality as concealed carry and you'll do fine... you *want* people to know.  They're gonna know when they scan your bags anyway... and you *have* to declare them too.

If I'm transporting pistols inside my regular checked suitcase, I usually mention that fact first thing when I get to the check in counter... again, to avoid surprises etc .

In regards to delays or similar in a jurisdiction where you're unsure of the rules - asking the local PD isn't a bad idea (kudos for thinking btw), or you can simply 'tough it out' and stay at the airport until your next flight.

[David Hineline]

Understand that at any given time your guns could be gone for ever.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/2474792,netanyahu-glock-missing-handguns-070710.article

[David Hineline]

As some point depending upon what flying a lot means, I would just keep a second handgun and ammo in lockup at the motel I always stayed at in Tuscan.