CCW outside of a school.

[shaggy853]

I live in GI, but travel to Kearney somewhat regularly and recently noticed the no gun signs on the streets outside of schools.  What are the concealed rules on this?  I remember it being said in class that if you are in a vehicle then its legal in a school parking lot.  What about on a motorcycle?  If I go for a walk can I not walk past a school while concealed carrying?  My thoughts are that CCW is fair game on a public sidewalk but I'd rather not find out that I'm wrong the hard way.

I had a situation in a school zone where I stopped to pick up some kids getting out of school.  Obviously I never went into the school but I did get out to let them into the vehicle.  Was this against the law?  Id rather keep the gun on me than leave it in the vehicle that stays running.  In GI the schools are posted at each entrance to the building.

Similarly there is a road in Hastings past the community college that is posted, is it illegal for me to drive down that road while carrying?

[bkoenig]

I've wondered the same thing.

[SemperFiGuy]

You might wish to check out Nebraska Statue 28-1204.04, which states in part:

-----------------------

(1) Any person who possesses a firearm in a school, on school grounds, in a school-owned vehicle, or at a school-sponsored activity or athletic event is guilty of the offense of unlawful possession of a firearm at a school.   Unlawful possession of a firearm at a school is a Class IV felony.

This subsection shall not apply to:

(a-e)  [Usual exemptions, such as police, ROTC, training, etc., etc.]

(f) a handgun carried as a concealed handgun by a valid holder of a permit issued under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act in a vehicle or on his or her person while riding in or on a vehicle into or  onto any parking area, which is open to the public and used by a school if, prior to exiting the vehicle, the handgun is locked inside the glove box, trunk, or other compartment of the vehicle, a storage box securely attached to the vehicle, or,

if the vehicle is a motorcycle, a hardened compartment securely attached to the motorcycle while the vehicle is in or on such parking area, except as prohibited by federal law.

For purposes of this subsection, encased means enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.

-----------------------------

It's always a good idea to go to the actual posted NE statutes at http://www.legislature.ne.gov/laws/browse-statutes.php for the latest, updated official wording.

May you never draw your handgun in fear nor anger.


sfg

[shaggy853]

Beautiful, thank you.  That covers most of my questions but still raises one.  Where does the school grounds begin?  Common sense would say that it begins at the sign but that raises the problem about those who live across the street from a school.  Following this they would not be able to park their vehicle in the street and go into their house(if carrying) and that doesn't seem right.

BTW, in the example I used I was parked in the street(sorry I forgot that detail).  I was not in a school parking lot or anywhere I would consider school grounds.

[HuskerXDM]

A street in front of the school is likely public property, maintained by the city/state.  My school has a driveway for picking up/dropping off kids and that is maintained by LPS, however and I believe is then considered school property.   

[shaggy853]

I would agree with you, but the fact that the street itself is posted is of concern to me.

Maybe calling the Kearney Police Dept or State Patrol would be a good idea?

[HuskerXDM]

Probably a wise choice... although, no offense to any law enforcement officers, you may not get someone with a real depth of knowledge on the topic... so you could even call someone like the attorney generals office and get a 'lawyerin' answer.   

[shaggy853]

I called the state patrol office.  Basically I was told that if I was walking past I would be fine because I had no intent of doing anything school related.  Picking up a kid would be school related so he did not suggest going to that location for that function while carrying.  He suggested parking where it wasn't posted.

Seemed odd to me because walking past a school on a sidewalk would potentially put me closer to the school than if I was standing next to my vehicle parked on the street.  Even still, I understand the idea behind what he said.

[bwarner]

I live two houses down from a grade school in northeast Kearney.Drug and Gun Free Zone signs are posted around the school.

[SemperFiGuy]

To Any and All Who May be Interested:

Once detained by an LEO, you are somewhat in jeopardy for several reasons.

First, the LEOs may not know the law.   They hardly can do so, given the breadth and scale of the Federal and Nebraska statutes as well as the many varying local and municipal codes.   Many of the LEOs with whom I've discussed CCW have said, more or less, "Gee.....I didn't know that" about aspects of CCW law.

Second, the prosecutor's office may be aggressive and gun-unfriendly.   Too bad, me and you.  

Third, judges have a wide range of latitude for their rulings, particularly as to what information and evidence may be admitted in court.   Even to the point of making their own case law in their own court.  Or--at least--bending it in a direction unfavorable to the accused CCW defendant.

Fourth, your attorney may (a) not have experience with CCW issues nor (b) have much in the way of settled handgun law precedent to use in your defense.


Perhaps the moral here is to try to stay well away from the edge.

Example:   The Westwood Plaza shopping center in Omaha has barely noticeable NO CCW signs at the street entrances to their parking lots.   But--the individual stores are not posted, as recommended by Title 272, Nebraska Administrative Code, Ch. 21, Section 018.04.   Probably not an arrangement which will pass muster in the courts, based on the Nebraska State Patrol posting recommendations.

Nevertheless, the intent of Westwood management is clear.   So I don't carry concealed at Westwood Plaza.   [And.......Yes--I still do shop there.   It serves my own needs and my own pleasure.]


These gratuitous thoughts offered for your consideration.


sfg

[shaggy853]

I understand the better safe than sorry approach, and how easily one can get dragged into an unfriendly LEO/court situation.  I really wish that this stuff was defined for us and we knew exactly what was right and wrong. 

[Brian]

What about this? 
??Generally, it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone.  A school zone is defined as being within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school??

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5310-1.pdf

[shaggy853]

However in the following situations an individual would not be possessing a firearm in violation of 922(q)(A):

1.  The individual is licensed by the State or political subdivision to possess the firearm...

this would allow for state law to decide for state permit holders.

[unfy]

IA's recent law, and many federal laws like having the 1000 foot range thing.

While you have been told that walking in front of a school without any intention to enter it is fine... I wouldn't take the risk of butting heads with an attorney if you can.

Your vehicle is an extension of your home (there's federal case law about this and such, pardon me for not linking to it).  I imagine a motorcycle shares similar rights.  While in your vehicle you're fine - if you have to step a single foot outside of the vehicle, disarm before doing so.

Get some permafixed saddle bags or a trunk... something that has a lock on it.  For my truck, ChrisZ was kind enough to point out:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=274442

Cabella's has something like this with a chain/chord attached for securing to car/truck seat.

Standard disclaimers about me not being lawyer and such.

[HuskerXDM]

Here is the same/similar box, $5 cheaper, although I didn't check shipping price... I have one for my XDm 9mm 4.5 in.  Box holds the gun and one mag and has enough foam padding to hold it in there tightly.  There is a cable that comes with it so you can secure it in your car or on your motorcycle. The company is in Missouri too, so you get pretty fast shipping... I've ordered a couple of things from them.
http://trophysoutdoors.com/node/18822

If you happen to be an employee of the school in question, be sure to check the employee handbook... while there is federal law protecting your vehicle, my school employee handbook expressly forbids having a weapon in my vehicle on school property, even as a permit holder.  So there you go, an entity that gets state and federal funding gets to trump federal law... go figure.

[unfy]

HuskerXDM: same product, diff sticker on it ? or so it seems .  I mentioned mine mostly because I know Cabellas carries it, dunno about BassPro.  Or at least a product similar.  Can't recall if I paid $20 or $25.  And it's local pickup woohoo.

I can see an employer imposing certain restrictions on employees and that being fine.  One of those things to where "if you wanna keep your job, you follow our rules" kind of thing.  If there's a descriminatory factor in this particular case, I dunno.  If my boss (not a gov't job) told me that I couldn't listen to rock and roll music in the parking lot.... or else I were to get fired.... I dunno how that works out.  I know things get different when it comes to gov't jobs as well... so.... 

[shaggy853]

Not employed by the school.  Actually I have a side job as a chauffeur.

My primary job is a government job though.  Handbook says no guns on the property and the parking lot is gated(not publicly accessible) so I dont bring anything to work in that case.