1864 Snider rifle project

[bkoenig]

Here's the partially reassembled barreled receiver and lock.  The Damascus pattern of the barrel doesn't really show up here, but it's really visible when you see it in real life.




Here's a close up of the detail on the lock.  I'm pretty sure the hammer and lock plate were engraved by hand.  You can tell when you look closely and see the minor imperfections in the engraving.

[bkoenig]

A closeup of the breech.  The entire breech block swivels to the side for loading.  To extract a fired case you pull back on the block and in theory the extractor pulls the brass out.  In practice I guess a lot of people have to knock the cases loose with a cleaning rod, since the extractors are pretty worn and the 24ga shotgun cases used to form brass have a slightly undersized rim.  The block is spring loaded, so when you let it go it snaps forward again.

[MikeF72]

Heck of a project you got there - but you're doing a wonderful job.  Unfortunately, I don't have your patience.  As soon as I get my hands on a gun I want to shoot it.  Make sure you post A LOT of pics once you get it all cleaned up and put together.  I can't wait to see the final product! 

[bkoenig]

Mike, half the fun of this project is seeing the rifle emerge from under all the gunk, but I'm definitely excited to shoot it.  It's kind of funny, the pictures make it look like there's a lot more rust than there really is.

Just ordered a new sear & spring.  I also ordered 3 moulds for it.  I slugged the bore but it seems one of the grooves is a little deeper than the others, so I wasn't sure what size to get.  Nominal size is .577 but in reality the bore is quite a bit bigger.  Luckily Dixie Gun Works had some cheap moulds for $10 each or $20 for 3 of them, so I got one in .580, one in .582, and one in .585.  We'll see which one shoots best.

Next job is to get some Acraglas and repair a few splits in the stock, then give it as many coats of oil as I can get it to soak up.

[bkoenig]

No new pictures, but I have repaired the lock.  The sear worked without any fitting, and the sear spring needed just a minor amount of filing.  There's a little locater tab on the spring that fits into a slot in the lock plate and it was just a little too long.  30 seconds of light filing and it fit perfectly.  The trigger pull is atrocious.  It's heavy and creepy.  Couple that with the really wide rear sight notch and I understand why these never had a reputation as tack drivers. 

I've given the stock several coats of tung oil, at least a half dozen.  It could take more, but the wood is really getting dark and I don't want to overdo it.  The wood had a lot of old stains and dark spots, and it's almost black in some areas.  The stock was a lot more beat up than I first thought.  Once I got the tar off of it I realized it had a lot of little nicks and dings.  I repaired a few splits with some brown-tinted Acraglass, but I left all the existing marks in the wood.  I'm calling it good for now, but I'll probably give it a coat every few months if it's feeling dry.

I have the rifle all reassembled now, and all I have left is to fabricate a keeper screw for the breech block pin, then I'm ready to start collecting reloading components and fire it up.  I still need brass and a press that will accept large body dies.  I already have lead and black powder, so I'm almost there.  I'll try to get some pictures up in the next few days.

[bkoenig]

Just realized I never got around to posting pictures of the finished rifle.  I ordered a new press tonight that's big enough to accommodate the oversize dies, so hopefully I'll be shooting this thing by this weekend.  Still need to trim the brass down before I run it through the sizing die, and I need to cast some bullets.  I think I'm going to wuss out and use Pyrodex instead of real black powder, at least initially.  I don't want to waste any of my precious Swiss 1.5, that's reserved for my Sharps.

[bkoenig]

Slowly getting closer to bringing this thing back to life.  I now have a grand total of (1) .577 Snider case ready for loading.  I used 24ga shotgun brass, trimmed to 2".  The brass is then annealed and run through the sizing die.  I ruined the first two because I didn't anneal enough.  I've also read that these should be annealed again after sizing.  Not sure about that yet, I need to research more.  The brass chambers but it's very loose, so I think I'll do the same thing when reloading as I do for my 45-70 Sharps.  I'm going to resize just enough to squeeze the neck down a little and give it some tension to hold the bullet in place.  I've also read the chambers on these are often oval shaped, so you need to mark the brass and load it the same way each time.

Here's a picture of the .577 in the middle, with a 45-70 on the left and a .223 on the right for comparison:

[gsd]

chunky little fellers aint they?

[bkoenig]

Yep, and it shoots roughly the same bullet weight as the 45-70 but a much bigger caliber.  The 45-70 shoots a very long bullet so it stabilizes well out past 1000 yards.  I have a feeling the .577 will start to tumble after a few hundred yards.  That and the horrible sights will probably combine to make this about a 100 yard rifle, max.

It's interesting that the formed case actually has a very slight bottleneck.  I wonder if it will remain after firing or if it will blow out?

[gsd]

i noticed it looked like it had a slight bottleneck to it, im sure that first time pressure hits it it will spread a little.

[bkoenig]

Ok, it's all done except for pulling the trigger.  I did a function check and verified with an empty, primed case that the firing pin would set the primers off.  Everthing looked good so I got a few (6) rounds loaded up today.  Only six because I only got six good bullets out of my mould.  I'd just got done casting a bunch of 45-70 and I was tired so I didn't feel like staying in the garage much longer.  The bullet I'm using is actually a Minie meant for a .58 muzzleloader, so it's basically a hollow base 515 grain wadcutter with three lube grooves.  I used the same lube that I use for my .45-70 bullets (50% beeswax, 25% Crisco, 25% olive oil).  I filled the grooves and also filled in the hollow base with lube as well.

These cases hold a LOT of powder!  When loading black powder cartridges you don't want to leave any space between the powder and the projectile as that can cause a pressure spike.  The height of the powder column determines your bullet seating depth.  To seat deeper you have to either put in less powder or compress the powder more.  With my 45-70 I have to compress the powder just to get 60 grains in the case.  I put 70 grains in this thing and it still was only about half full.  With that load I would have ended up with the bullet nose below the case mouth.  So, I added half a cotton ball to the top of the powder, followed by a .030 cardboard wad.  I then seated the bullet so the top lube groove was just under the case mouth.  There's actually a lot more of the bullet inside the case than there is outside.  If I actually loaded this all the way up with a full load of powder I think it would be just plain painful to shoot.  I don't plan on ever doing that considering the age of the rifle.

Here's the loaded cartridge, again with a .45-70 on the left and .223 on the right.  All three are military cartridges and it's interesting to see the difference in design over time. 

[RobertH]

wow.  that rocks!  are you going to chronograph it?

[bkoenig]

I don't own a chronograph or I would.  My best guess of the muzzle velocity is sloooooooow.

I shot it this morning, just ran two rounds through it to see how it worked.  It's about 2 feet high and 1 foot left at 100 yards.  I need to rig up some non-permanent modification to the sight to correct that and then shoot for some actual groups to see what it can do. 

Recoil wasn't bad, about on par with my 45-70, although these were very light loads.  The rifle really wanted to twist in my hands when I shot it though.  I imagine that huge diameter bullet puts out a lot of torque when the rifling spins it. 

[Dan W]

I have a chronograph you can borrow, but if you shoot it you buy it


it is not a high end unit but it does work good for me

[bkoenig]

What model do you have?  I've been thinking about buying one.  To be honest, I've never cared too much about velocity.  When I develop a load I just find the most accurate one for the rifle and stick with it.

[Dan W]

Competition Electronics ProChrono Pal

[bkoenig]

Ok, I took my remaining 4 rounds to the range this morning and touched them off at 25 yards.  It put all 4 rounds into one BIG hole.  When the bullet is .58 inches it really doesn't take much to get all your shots touching.

This rifle definitely has promise, though.  At 25 yards it was 4" left and 12" high, so I need to figure out how to adjust the sights somehow.  The sights are soldered to the barrel so there's no adjustment.  If I get around to casting some more bullets before this weekend I'm going to bring this to the vintage rifle match this weekend.  I won't compete with it but I'll touch off a few rounds just for grins.  It sure gets attention at the range!

[gsd]

if it's the same bat time, same bat place i'll be there with coffee in hand.  And a camera again.  I can't wait to see this beast in person.

[bkoenig]

I swore I was done buying guns for the rest of the year, but IMA-USA.com had a deal that I couldn't pass up:



20% off.  Looks like I'm going to be building a sand bag wall in my front yard and singing "Men of Harlech".

[Ghost]

bkoenig- is that a short chamber Boxer Henry .45 caliber miracle??