AR-15 Type Pistols

[SeanN]

Are they legal in NE, specifically in Omaha? I realize I would have to register it as a handgun (sigh).

I mainly ask because I really want to build one. They aren't really quite as practical as a short-barreled rifle or a full size AR-15 rifle but it would be a fun toy and a blast at the range. I'm thinking 10.5" barrel.

I have a letter going out to the ATF today to ask about the NFA regulations of owning and and whether or not I can "construct" an AR-15 pistol out of my stripped lower (that has never been anything else and was transferred as a stripped lower when I purchased it) so we'll hear back from them on that end of the spectrum.

Any of you guys have one of these? What do you think of it?

[bkoenig]

My understanding is as long as the lower has never been assembled into a rifle you can build an AR15 pistol out of it.  I think a lot of guys do that while waiting for their paperwork to go through for a SBR, and when they get the stamp they just stick a stock on it.

[SeanN]

That's my understanding too, bkoenig. I just want to be sure, and have it in writing from the ATF. Just in case. Also, I have a full-size AR15 as well. The last thing I would ever want is to get pinned with "intent to construct an SBR" because I have a full rifle in the same household. So that's on my letter also... As is asking if I can mount a Magpul AFG on it.

I'm willing to bet "no" on the last one but I'm hoping I get a definitive "yes" on the others.

[bkoenig]

Definitely good to be on the safe side.  Of course if we lived in a truly free country we wouldn't have to worry about it :angry9:

[David Hineline]

You are being overly cautious,  AR pistols have been around since before the 94 AWB you can not put a vertical foregrip on any handgun. Not sure what grip you are looking at but if vertical it requries NFA registration as an AOW.

[Famous556]

Sean,

I know this thread is old, but I'm interested to hear what was said from the ATF specifically about the AFG on your pistol?

Thanks

[SeanN]

Hey, I was off the NFOA forums for awhile... Here's a Google doc of their response: https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhL%20WI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx&hl=en

Kinda funny, I'm seeing that letter cropping up on random other gun forums since I posted it over on AR15.com.

[SeanN]

The only other question I have is if you can actually concealed carry an AR15 pistol in a backpack or something with a CCW license.

Technically it only has "one stock (pistol grip)" that could be considered "designed to be fired with one hand" and it has a barrel shorter than 16" if you get the right upper.

I think it would fit their silly definition of a handgun.

I think I'll have to build my 10.5" or 11.5" AR pistol.

[justsomeguy]

Interesting that they don't see the angled fore-grip the same as a vertical fore-grip. They are both designed to allow the use of a second hand.
(not that I'm complaining)

[Famous556]

I agree, interesting...  I thought for sure they would say "Sure, provided you pay us $200 and register the weapon as an SBR and wait for a few months and jump through a bunch of hoops."

[SeanN]

I agree, interesting...  I thought for sure they would say "Sure, provided you pay us $200 and register the weapon as an SBR and wait for a few months and jump through a bunch of hoops."

Technically, that would be an AOW (Any Other Weapon) as it would not be considered a SBR due to no stock. But yes, same form.

[justsomeguy]

Technically, the rifled barrel makes it a short barreled rifle.

[justsomeguy]

After looking into is some more I think you were right about the AOW classification.

That's cool. Cheaper transfer and you can cross state lines without asking "permission".

Here is the deffinition of "Any Other Weapon" as the law is written.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-appendix-a.pdf

(e) Any other weapon. The term 'any other weapon' means any weapon or device capable of being
concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a
pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun
shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in
length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading,
and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a
pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be
fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

And this is how the ATF interprets that law.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

May I also direct your attention here?  http://cleanupatf.org/discussion/2009/04/172.html


http://cleanupatf.org/