Author Topic: Copper Plating (Read 33255 times)

unfy · « **Reply #120 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:06:54 PM »

Quote from: Dan W on February 04, 2012, 04:09:15 PM

<------------------ that is a scary avatar dude

LOL.... yeah... found it years ago as a joke for stuff here at work as an AIM avatar. Decided I'd start using it for other stuff as well

.

In other news... this weekend was possibly the laziest 'awake' weekend I've had in some time... up early, to bed early, but accomplished NOTHING the entire time.... other than watching the Puppy Bowl VIII on Animal Planet.

Well... not entirely true. I did razor-blade trim the edges of the pieces I cut out from the bottom of the 5 gallon buckets in prep for installing them back into the 'basket'. Gonna drill a bunch of quarter inch holes in the pieces, then zip tie them back into place. Should have taken me all of 30min to do (maxish?) ... but.. yeah... lazy weekend

.

The goal is to at least get the holes drilled tonight and possibly put them back in place on the basket. Don't get me wrong, I still like the fact I cut them out... its just the easiest / free way to get sturdy screened-in-or-whatever things right now is to just re-use them. Guess my creative juices are running low at the moment heh. I'll also get everything ready for more plating attempts hopefully tomorrow night. I think I've got ~100 bullets to work with, if not I'll cast some more.

........

then again.... i might be a bit scared that the plating won't work.

* i've got a decent power source now
* i've got the aquarium heater getting the solution to 85-90 degrees
* i've got the 'big' copper sheets to be a proper anode
* i've got the air pumps for liquid agitation
* i've assumed my new basket is good
* i've got the motor for spinning the basket automatically

if.... this doesn't work.... i may be completely out of ideas.

Speaking of which, I think tonight I might also do a test plate of just a single bullet (hanging from a wire). Just to show that my setup still works. If it doesn't work -- it'll probably be time to toss out my copper sulfate solution (down the drain with LOTS of water, as per label) and get a fresh batch.... which will have to wait until this weekend due to $$$.

I can probably also dry-test my basket setup to see how the bullets 'tumble' and such.

**** IF **** the next mass copper plate test works, it'll be time to figure out how to more easily prepare bullets. That probably means playing with acid. Kinda nervous about that.

unfy · « **Reply #121 on:** February 21, 2012, 11:22:59 PM »

Work and real life has been somewhat in the way.

I zip tied the cut out bits of the bucket back in place after drilling some holes in it ------ i suggest skipping cutting it out and just drilling holes directly in the base of the buckets. I bought a couple extra 5 gallon bucks for if I decide to redo my 'basket'.

I now just need to prep some lead, get new copper flashing in place as anode and let'er rip. Been real busy at work (even working weekends) so might take a bit.

unfy · « **Reply #122 on:** March 03, 2012, 10:47:49 PM »

possibly last attempt at copper plating bullets about to start

edit: well, about 3 hours to go to 24hrs

so far, the frictional gear system thing is the most prone to failure.

the rubber likes to get spun off of the 1/2" pvc end cap, even when epoxied into place.

it seems the coat might be okay, will know for sure later.

the new basket is great, it's a constant tumbling, bullets generally stay within the copper sulfate too. new anode seems to be good too.

if the basket stops for a long time (which it has with gear system failure while sleeping etc) ... ya get a copper 'dust' floating in liquid after things start spinning again. the coat is naturally uneven if this happens :/

if the coat is improved.... i will prolly try one more time.... need to fix frictional gear thing and i'll start with fresh copper sulfate solution. this session has definitely been encouraging.

unfy · « **Reply #123 on:** March 05, 2012, 05:53:35 AM »

complete failure.

unfy · « **Reply #124 on:** March 05, 2012, 08:34:07 PM »

Although this was a colossal failure, I really do like how the new basket turned out and how things looked early on.

The plating process seems to take a turn for the worse down the line, the first few hours of the process seem fine.

Prior successes with long plating times were all done with at least two passes. This would be akin to the 'first strike' mentioned earlier in the thread.

* want to try two passes
** just going off prior experience
** the prep for second coat will be roughing up with the fine steel wool.

* attempting fewer bullets next time
** mostly cause I'm lazy (roughing them up takes forever)
** but i wonder if the solution / setup just can't handle so many at once
** thinking 20 bullets.

* gonna dump copper sulfate solution and make new batch
** it's looking rather ick

* gonna change orientation of the copper anode so that it's less likely to get gunk on top of it
** right now it's laying flat along the bottom of the tub, has a film of ick on it

* friction gear was cooperating for last 5 hours of this last plate... so.. gonna leave it alone
** shrug

* will probably make a backup smaller-friction-gear thing
** just so if I do have to swap it out, i don't have to baby sit it

unfy · « **Reply #125 on:** June 07, 2012, 01:08:35 PM »

I'm still alive.

Been a bit busy with health related things. In late March, started walking 5km a day. For the last 3 or 4 weeks, have been going to the gym and weight lifting. Dropped my average and resting heart rate by about 10-15bpm, dropped my blood pressure by 20pts on both sides, and have been losing about 1.5lbs a week (currently: 191.6lbs).

I still have all of my plating material, all the constructs / jigs / rigs i've built, and all of that. I've even got all the consumable supplies waiting. I've just not had the time into trying plating some more. Hopefully soon

... I miss the smell of lead in the morning hehe.

bkoenig · « **Reply #126 on:** June 07, 2012, 07:33:34 PM »

Good job! Being in shape is the best investment you can make in yourself.

sparky · « **Reply #127 on:** June 08, 2012, 07:54:43 AM »

Thats great and all but get back to it, my days haven't been the same without my dose of UNFY the Science Guy.

unfy · « **Reply #128 on:** October 08, 2012, 07:56:18 PM »

In early July, managed to injure my back. A bulged disc. Has made sitting in a chair for extended periods rather difficult, let alone hunched over stuff poking it with things.

Getting close to winter... and the itch to play science guy is returning. Still have all my supplies, still have all my notes, etc.

Something else I'm gonna add to my winter experimentation is looking into building a case feeder for my hornady lnl ap as well. That's a back seat to copper plating though.

Dan W · « **Reply #129 on:** October 08, 2012, 08:21:40 PM »

Glad you are back and hope you recover fast !

unfy · « **Reply #130 on:** October 08, 2012, 08:47:29 PM »

TY TY Dan

Gonna need to probably replace the plastic tank I was using last year. Could clean it out, sure, but since I've gone from 'zig zag tube with hangers off of it' to the basket.... not having a dimpled out top would be handy (given all the structural strength that's at the rim).

Might change the basket design a little as well, but will prolly leave it alone until get beyond 'step 1' again heh.

Problems that need to be addressed from last attempts:

* i never got a decent coat with the rotating basket
** fewer bullets
** maybe just a clean / fresh solution will fix

* the driver smaller 'friction gear' would fall off or similar
** no immediate ideas of yet
** reinforcing the bigger wheel so it distorts less would probably help

* post-cast-lead-prep is slow
** still have the option of an acid bath

unfy · « **Reply #131 on:** October 23, 2012, 02:35:49 PM »

I'm rearranging my web server a bit, images may be broken for a lil bit... i'll run through and edit prior posts down the line with updated URL's.

Edit: done

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #132 on:** October 23, 2012, 03:42:50 PM »

unfy:

Fuggedaboudplating!!!!

Go to www.berrybullets.com.

Buy some of their Gilded Bullets. [Over $50, shipping is free. You already know that fact.]

Now you will have Lots More Time for Shooting, instead of all these experiments where you learn lots but don't get shootable boolits.

You'll have Lots More Time to research something Really, Really of True Value to handgunners:

Namely, How to Get Lead Off the Muzzle Tip and Front End of the Cylinder for Lead Wad-Cutter Bullet Revolver Shooters.

Now that problem, Dear Friend, cries out for a solution.

And if you solve it, I will freely tell you what little I have learned about reloading .357Sig.

Do you realize I agonize every time your experiments don't work out??? Like watching the Huskers during the game with UCLA.

sfg

unfy · « **Reply #133 on:** October 23, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »

Easy:

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/solvents-degreasers/solvents/lead-remover-cloth-prod4956.aspx

I use that on my stainless S&W 686 357mag all the time.

Lovely stuff.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #134 on:** October 23, 2012, 04:49:42 PM »

unfy:

You know, I really want to be a True Believer.........

But it couldn't be that Easy.

So far, nothin' in bottles, cans, pads, or brushes has ever worked for lead. Copper, yes. [Shooter's Choice]
Powder residue.......Good Ol' Hoppe's #9. [Anybody have any information on Hoppe's #1 thru #8??? Or WD1 thru WD39?

]

But.........on Your Own Recommendation, I'll give it a try.

And report back. If it Doesn't Work, I'll tell you. If it Does, I'll tell the Entire Forum. Then Tom Engel and all those Lead Smelter-Casters can sell it in the package along with their cast boolits.

sfgPS - You have the DeLuxe Stainless Model. Mine is Plain Ol' blued Model 19. If it removes the bluing from Mr. Smith & Mr. Wesson, doesn't count.

unfy · « **Reply #135 on:** October 23, 2012, 05:37:09 PM »

I've used I think both the Brownell's cloth and I think the bullet hole provided cloths (I forget name brand there) ... they do work marvelously. Makes'er shine pretty with only 2-3min of work instead of hour(s) with a brush.

I think I've used it on my sig p229... and don't particularly recall any problems.

Do some research / reading of your own, and can always test it on a blue'd firearm piece you're not too concerned about ?

unfy · « **Reply #136 on:** November 12, 2012, 09:08:36 PM »

SFG: reading the label on the lead cloth, it does mention being careful with bluing. Heads up. Also, while around town, I did see a pro-shot (shoot?) brand that I've mentioned. It's the same cloth. Another warning, I saw a Hoppe's branded cloth that smelled different, so it's prolly made out of something else. Lastly, I also have some ... gunk in a small jar ... that smells the same as the cloth, so I'll assume it can be used with a cotton cloth in replacement of the impregnated factory cloth ?

These guys seem to have inexpensive swaging dies:

http://www.hawkbullets.com/swage-it.htm

I've sent an email inquiring how their jacketing dies work as well as questions regarding instructional docs / pics / videos. At $80 for dies to produce possibly 100x better quality bullets, it might make this copper plating venture moot

.

I'd still like to see this project reach fruition in producing a workable projectile though. Just to say it can be done.

Tonight I'll be picking up a bunch of distilled water and prepping for another go at copper plating again. First up will be cleaning everything I've got and testing a single bullet hanging from a wire again, just to prove the set up is still working.

I'm going to stick with just water / copper sulfateish solution this time around, skipping the vinegar and stuff. I figure it was contaminating the solution. Will be keeping the aerator and aquarium heater though.

I'll be heading to thrift stores and looking for some Pyrex for the acid etching step in the future. Other requirement will be a deep fryer basket / scooper thing made out of something that doesn't care about HCl to make it safer to work with. All this just to remove the time consuming wire brushing

.

When taking apart the original basket as part of cleaning up work space, I noted there was plenty of copper coating on the wire that ran throughout the basket. This raises fears that copper on copper affinity might be making the lead plating harder than it needs to be.

I've still got my notched tubing for the mass-hanging experiment, and I'm still toying around with ideas in my head to make hanging bullets less labor intensive. The hanging idea has the possibility of keeping the lead as the primary electrically active plating surface, it just needs an easy way of getting bullets in the hangers.... all without creating a large surface area to suck up copper ions while submerged.

Using clothes pins... with metal attached to the outter parts seems like a very viable possibility. I... actually like this idea a lot and will fiddle with it when I get home, and post pics with what I come up with. This should make bullet -> hanger attachment real easy and quick although how to get close pin attached to electrical rail above the surface might be interesting. We shall see

edit:

Talked a little with the folks at Hawk Bullets. Gonna get into a more detailed conversation next week (to avoid impulse buying a die set from them hehe). Looks promising and they're friendly

unfy · « **Reply #137 on:** November 13, 2012, 12:55:50 AM »

Before cleaning up the copper plating tub... ewwwwww:

unfy · « **Reply #138 on:** November 14, 2012, 03:31:24 AM »

Some manual physical roughing up, half hour in the tub at ~1v with power supply, make shift clothespin thing that won't work out, single bullet plated fine.

Basket exposes a lot of copper wire to the plating solution, I'd love to get something hanger-related working without being a PITA to work with.

Wonder if some kind of plastic clothespin with a wire run down for the contact point would work out. If they made some kind of 'needle nose clothespin', that'd prolly be more ideal.

edit:

basically, if i can take a plastic clamp that does or can be modded to where it grips the lube groove... and run a wire down to that spot to provide the continuity...

plastic duck bill hair clips maybe ?

unfy · « **Reply #139 on:** November 14, 2012, 10:34:04 PM »

Took a refresher on HCl acid and was again humbled. That stuff just ain't friendly heh. Looks like a plastic basket is the way to go for possibly using it to etch stuff. Taking chances on non-lab equipment tools having reactive metals in it is just too great.

But.... further reading suggests nitric acid to etch lead. I recall seeing it in hardware stores, so that's a plus.

I dunno, the whole acid approach just seems... well... dangerously stupid lol. I think mostly because I don't have a way to safely store it.

I need a garage, gosh darn it hehehe.

Wonder if I can make steel wool gloves. Just rub the bullets in between hands for a lil bit, would make things at easier and quicker. Maybe something like gloves, layer of steel wool, layer of cheese cloth. I dunno, the whole physical abrasion step is irritating. Looking at the bullets before / after / etc, the abrasion is a possibly required step as well -- it seems like the copper better adheres to the lead when it's not an ultra flat surface.

Wonder if a small groove cut into wood or something would do well at keeping a bullet in place for a quick pass over with an abrasive pad / brush. Hmmm. That has possibilities. Similarly, if there was a PVC pipe or something that was lined with some kind of brush on the inside and ya just use a dowel to push the lead through ...

Can't go about tumbling them in some kind of acetone mixture with an abrasive. Dunno how you'd safely discard of the liquid mix after the fact (having lead stuff in it).