General Categories > Carry Issues
carry a loaded Glock with one in the chamber?
sjwsti:
--- Quote from: armed and humorous on January 04, 2012, 10:14:33 AM ---Shawn (and others):
Now, I realize many of these trained individuals have probably not had the degree of training that some of you here have had. Still, they've certainly had more training than the average Joe Blow.
--- End quote ---
All training is not equal. Especially in the Law Enforcement community. To use them as an example I have taught and trained with a number of SWAT teams in eastern Ne as well as Officers from Missouri, Illinois, Ohio and Iowa. I have trained with LEOs that are very skilled and motivated and also LEOs that display terrible fundamentals and tactics that will most likely get them killed if they ever had to fight for their life. And the credit, or blame, can be laid at the feet of their training officers.
For example, I was helping to teach a Strike Tactical Level 1-5 class in Illinois last summer. There was a young Officer who worked for Chicago PD that was falling way short of the accuracy requirement to qualify. After some one on one we determined that he had absolutely no idea how to properly align the sights on his weapon. Once we explained proper sight alignment and front sight focus he did well. He was supposedly trained, but in reality his training was so poor as to border on criminal. And he had been working the streets of Chicago for more than a year.
The flip side would be Omaha SWAT. They are absolutely one of the best trained and skilled teams in the country. Recently one of their Officers was forced to shoot a sword wielding maniac who was about to stab an infant. 3 shots, 3 hits. Two above the collar bones. When I talked to him about the experience he said it was mindset and training that made it seem almost easy.
So I would have to disagree that you cant know how you will react in a life or death situation. I have spoken to too many people who have been there, done that, who did well and attributed it to their training.
--- Quote from: armed and humorous on January 04, 2012, 10:14:33 AM --- It strikes me odd that so many here want the right to keep and bear arms for everyone, infringed, and yet they turn around and indicate that no one should be carrying a gun unless they are basically trained to the point of perfection.
Maybe, Shawn, you're not trying to imply that at all, but it sort of sounds that way.
--- End quote ---
I don't believe that any training should be required by the govt to have a gun for protection. But if you are really carrying one for self defense and not just carrying to say that you are. It is in your best interest to have some training if you really want to have the best chance of surviving a life or death encounter.
--- Quote from: armed and humorous on January 04, 2012, 10:14:33 AM ---I recently watched some videos (probably from a link off this forum) of people set up in a college lecture situation. One of the students was armed with a paint ball gun, and at some point in the lecture an armed man came in and started shooting (paint balls). This was repeated several times with different students, and none of them got off a shot, or at least were unable to shoot the attacker. At least one of these students was very familiar with guns and considered a good marksman, blah, blah, blah.
--- End quote ---
I saw the same thing, and have read that it was a set up for TV. The shooter was told before hand exactly who was armed and were they were sitting. Not a realistic portrayal at all.
I have had the opportunity to participate in a drill similar to that one. We had aprox 20 students spread out through a multi room single story bldg. The Instructors simulated a terrorist attack using a number of different tactics and multiple shooters. Only a few students were armed at a time and no one but the Instructors knew who that was. The results of our simulation were quite different than the one staged for TV. As long as you weren't in the first room when they came in blazing away (if you were in that room you got shot) In every scenario an armed student was able to get rounds on the terrorist.
We are all products of our individual experiences. I have had the opportunity to train with some very experienced and dangerous men who have had to fight for their lives on a number of occasions. When someone like that says training is important, I listen. Being a Medic in north Omaha for over a decade I have treated more than a few victims of gunshots, stabbings and assaults and seen them breathe their last breath right in front of me. Its one of the reasons I train so hard because I never want that to be me, or anyone I know lying there.
Sorry for the length of this. Probably time to put it to bed.
- Shawn
armed and humorous:
Shawn:
I don't disagree with the value of training, especially if it is done correctly and frequently. I'm also sure you know a lot more about it than I do. I didn't know much about the videos I mentioned, but I suspected that the "attackers" were aware of who in the classroom was carrying. At least it seemed they took out the armed student quite quickly rather than it being a random shooting or simple a "spray" of bullets that happened to get the armed one. I'm sure there are many well-trained people who react as they were trained, even under the worst of circumstances, and get the job done. I'm not disputing that at all.
For what it's worth, the people you talk about who were well-trained and good at what they did, were mostly the cream of the crop. There is only so much cream in the milk bucket, and it all goes to the top. Most of the bucket is the rest of society, who don't fare nearly so well.
I don't know much about you, but from what I've read of your comments, I'd say you are involved professionally in this type of thing, and you have committed yourself to becoming the best you can be at it. For that I commend you, and I appreciate the value of your experience and your willingness to share it on the forum. Just keep in mind that for every one like you, there are hundreds, or thousands, or more, who are committed to something else. Perhaps they don't have the time or money to do what you have done. It doesn't mean they don't deserve to carry a firearm for self-defense, nor does it preclude them from doing it successfully under the right circumstances (keep the armed citizen stories in mind). Yes, you're right, there may be many more cases of armed citizens who failed to successfully defend themselves, and it could be due to the lack of training.
Okay, I'm probably starting to ramble now. You're right. We should put this to bed (not that I'm trying to get in the last word :)).
DanClrk51:
--- Quote from: armed and humorous on January 04, 2012, 10:14:33 AM ---I recently watched some videos (probably from a link off this forum) of people set up in a college lecture situation. One of the students was armed with a paint ball gun, and at some point in the lecture an armed man came in and started shooting (paint balls). This was repeated several times with different students, and none of them got off a shot, or at least were unable to shoot the attacker. At least one of these students was very familiar with guns and considered a good marksman, blah, blah, blah.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if we all believe in the second amendment, we can't be infringing on it by saying you have to be expertly trained before you should be allowed to carry. Hopefully, anyone carrying knows his/her weapon well enough that they don't shoot anyone by accident. If they are able to fend off an attacker, so much the better. If they can't, too bad for them, but I don't think we can take away their right to defend themselves just because they're not very good at it.
--- End quote ---
While agree with you on that 2nd paragraph I don't think Shawn is arguing that your right to carry be taken away either. I think he is just trying to get people better prepared and to constantly strive to get better and better and to prepare for more and more situations. Having said that I also don't think that because you don't seek out advanced training its going to doom you to failure if and when a self defense situation arises.
In regards to that college video: That "experiment" was a total fraud, set up to fail from the beginning. What else could you expect from ABC news? I'm not going to go into detail of why since the NRA and numerous other groups have already exposed that "study" for what it was.
armed and humorous:
Dan (and Shawn):
I didn't really think Shawn meant people without adequate training shouldn't be allowed to carry, and I agree that the more training a person has, the better off we all are. However, even though most of us realize that, it doesn't mean we're going to go out and spend every spare minute of our time and all our spare cash to get more training. I had to drop my membership at the gun range last year because I had more important things to purchase with what money I still had. That's not to say, defending one's self isn't important. But, eating, having a roof over my head, and money for gas outweigh the slim chance that I'll ever need to defend myself with a gun.
As for the videos, I didn't remember exactly how I came across them in the first place, but as I said, I didn't necessarily buy the argument they were making, at least not from the setup they created.
HuskerXDM:
--- Quote from: y0diggity on December 27, 2011, 10:41:19 PM ---Do you Glock-carriers keep it cocked loaded while you're carrying? I'm curious about your experiences since its a fairly passive safety system on it.
Thanks!
--- End quote ---
So back to the OP's question... you can see there is some debate on this.... do what you feel is best for you. But don't count on having enough time to rack the slide in a SD situation.
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