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Does Concealed Gun Give Cops Right to Search You?
AAllen:
--- Quote from: Gunscribe on December 29, 2011, 05:39:46 PM ---What the article does not mention is that the quoted statute also states that one can legally carry a concealed firearm without a permit on property owned or leased and in a private means of conveance. If the Store manger knew they were carrying and had not told them they could not then tacit approval under the law would have made it legal for them to carry as employees on employee property.
The fact that one is a convicted felon entirely negates the above.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the clarification Scribe.
I posted this because we have allot of discussions about how laws should be changed and what we would like the laws to do or not due. Setting aside the "felon" discussion, we have had fun discussions on that in the past and those I'm certain will continue, I have a simple question. Why do we need to inform or submit to searches because we are participating in a protected Natural Right?
What can we do to fix this issue? Should we address it?
People who know me realize I'm a from my cold dead hands type of guy, that understands things need to be done a little bit at a time, and I have learned to play the politics quickly. But I'm trying to figure out how one would address the multiple issues here.
unfy:
--- Quote from: AAllen on December 29, 2011, 06:27:35 PM ---Why do we need to inform or submit to searches because we are participating in a protected Natural Right?
--- End quote ---
Well, in a friendly stance towards LEO - if I was a LEO, I wouldn't mind knowing about weapons in the vicinity. It's a dangerous profession after all.
Also - the 'inform' helps diffuse a dangerous situation before it occurs. I'd personally do it even if the law didn't require it... respect for the LEO as well as not eating pavement with my face if the weapon is discovered later as a surprise.
Searches - beyond the 'inform' bit is muddy if there's no cause (other than having the weapon on your person).
Is concealed carry a RIGHT ?
That's a fun question.
IMHO - the 2nd Amendment is quite clear about the right to bear arms. There's no limitations there-in about fully automatic weapons and such... so.... according to the 2nd Amendment as it is, I don't see why I can't own a fully automatic howlitzer. A tactical nuke might be a stretch... but... in general - I see any limitations on what I'm allowed to own as infringing the 2nd Amendment (magazine size, bore diameter, fully automatic, type of ammo, etc).
BUT concealed carry might be quite a different thing. Owning and bearing arms is clear. Concealed carry might not necessary be 'bearing'.
Open carry of a loaded firearm ? Sure... I can see that. How do you open carry a pistol on a winter day ? Unless it's a 10" revolver in a sling across your back.... ;)
I'm not wholly convinced that concealed carry is protected by the 2nd Amendment.
omaharj:
I'm not wholly convinced that concealed carry is protected by the 2nd Amendment.
The part about bearing arms comes to mind. The ability to use a firearm is dependent on having one on you. Keeping them in display case would satisfy the keep part,and make the anti's happy. An unloaded gun,with the ammunition kept separate, locked away from you,doesn't qualify as bearing arms to me. My opinion---RJ
unfy:
--- Quote from: omaharj on December 29, 2011, 07:31:53 PM ---The part about bearing arms comes to mind. The ability to use a firearm is dependent on having one on you. Keeping them in display case would satisfy the keep part,and make the anti's happy. An unloaded gun,with the ammunition kept separate, locked away from you,doesn't qualify as bearing arms to me. My opinion---RJ
--- End quote ---
You can carry a firearm on your person in a fully loaded open carry situation just fine in regard to 'bearing'.
To bear the arm, you have to have it on you in a ready-to-go state. I agree there. Similarly, I find any law forbidding open carry (or limitations about if the weapon is loaded or not) to be a 2nd Amendment violation.
Concealed... well... I can be convinced either way probably :D.
Ya could argue that since I don't find limitations on the firearms to be proper... that there are also no notions of limitations on how things are kept or born. Thus concealed is a protected right.
Ya can keep and bear arms without concealment. Does this make concealment a privilege now rather than a right ? Note, be careful when delineating 'right' vs 'privilege'.
Being concealed - we now get into fun word play concerning any expectation of the right to privacy and stuff. That's a huge can of worms I don't wanna get into heh.
bullit:
My personal experience in Nebraska......one fine afternoon, I was pulled over in Lincoln by a LCSO deputy and was ordered to exit my vehicle. My offense.....I was driving faster than he. When I discussed with him that his speed did not dicate speed limit, but said signage was the speed limit we moved on to the topic I mentioned to him immediately after him stopping me i.e. I have a CHP and I am carrying. Having just left the gym, my "mohaska" was wrapped up within my street clothes on the passenger seat along with my wallet. Upon informing the deputy that I wanted him to feel safe we had an issue with me obtaining my wallet and him not worrying. He replied he was not going to let me near my firearm. He then attempted to enter my vehicle. I politely said I did not want him to do such as he was halfway in the driver's seat. I informed him that I was not comfortable with him entering my vehicle with out p.c. or search warrant. In short, he would need to have a warrant to proceed further. He replied that he did have p.c. as I'd mentioned to him that I had a firearm in the vehicle. I then replied back that yes I did, but it was legally possesed and legally carried. There was not justifiable reason for him stopping me in the first place and certainly not p.c. presented to him at that point in time. He became reluctant to pursue further but still insisted on seeing my license and CHP. So we agreed to go around to the passenger side and I allowed him to remove the wallet from the pants pocket. He confirmed my license, CHP and thanked me for informing him. No citation was issued and we parted "friends". Odd but interesting event....
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