Hand gun reloading, copper plated bullets

[skydve76]

Buck thanks.  I get powder and primers from GU.  That's slightly cheaper than berrys bought at cabelas.  my .45 is under 10 per box too.  I started using 4.5g of bullseye as I can use a .5cc scoop to measure and load faster. 

[bk09]

Post removed from all the complaints of worried people.

A posted limit load for the 9mm with 115gr bullet and bullseye produces roughly 30500psi. The cartridge is rated to 35000psi while +P is 38000psi and +P+ is 42000psi. I had no signs of over pressure in any of the rounds fired. Yes the OAL is not what's suggested for 115gr bullets, it was longer which does a better job of lowering pressure. These bullets were also plated instead of jacketed, meaning they are the same diameter as jacketed but a lower brinell rating meaning they don't face as much resistance going down the barrel which also helps keep pressure under control.

I am glad you are all concerned with it but I don't want everybody lecturing me, this is the only time I have beefed up a load. And I admit I was lucky this time since I was not as experienced when I made these rounds, but I see no threat to my safety or my firearms safety. So the original post is gone and hopefully this thread can get back to the original topic...

[Dan W]

I strongly suggest nobody shoots the recipe I am going to provide out of any gun they value. 9mm was the first pistol cartridge I started reloading and literally bought a hi-point 9mm carbine just so I had an excuse to reload 9mm. Turns out I had a squib one time with about 4.4 grains of bullseye and SPP, so I cranked that number way up for the rest of my reloads(I was new and afraid of squibs, plus never checked OAL of bullets  ) Now I have several hundred 9mm I am trying to shoot off that contain 5.8gr of Bullseye behind 115gr Rainier HP, don't believe any cases have broke yet, but they sure do fling out of that hi-point (when it works).

Wish I had a chrono, alliant data shows 4.7gr of bullseye propelling a jacketed bullet at 1144fps, should be way above that in my carbine...

You are going to get hurt by irresponsibly firing dangerous  handloads, but that is your business.

Posting here makes it mine. I don't want any of our handloaders to get hurt as a result of your mistakes. You need to break those cartridges down and salvage the components. If you need to use a bullet puller, I will lend you my impact puller.

[bk09]

all posts removed for me on this thread...

[Dan W]

Bullseye is one of the fastest burning powders on the market and has a very sharp pressure spike. It is a poor choice for the small case volume of the  9mm and will  be very sensitive to COL errors, especially bullet setback. 

Most that use Bullseye in 9mm are using it for  light loads no where near max.

 AA#5 and HS6 are my 9mm powders for full power loads

[bk09]

Ya I am trying to get rid of my bullseye now, too dirty for me and has limited uses.

[skydve76]

Brad give me your bullseye    I love it.

Dan,  You are very safe reloader for sure!  I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits?  For my 1911 I was using 5 g with magnum primers, but have since gone with 4.5 g and standard primers.  I dont nitice any difference but I dont shoot it much beyond 25 yards.  My wife and I still pretty new to handguns to our ability to use the gun more affects accuracy than the load at this point.

I found with my scale a scoop can range between 4.3 and 4.7 but I know some variance comes from the scale itself because I can turn it off and on and get .2 grain flucations after taring each time.  Its a Hornady digital scale.  Not impressed with that.  Measuring .1 gain differences with my beam scale is impossible for me, my Hearstone home isnt level enough.

[bk09]

Brad give me your bullseye    I love it.

Dan,  You are very safe reloader for sure!  I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits?  For my 1911 I was using 5 g with magnum primers, but have since gone with 4.5 g and standard primers.  I dont nitice any difference but I dont shoot it much beyond 25 yards.  My wife and I still pretty new to handguns to our ability to use the gun more affects accuracy than the load at this point.

I found with my scale a scoop can range between 4.3 and 4.7 but I know some variance comes from the scale itself because I can turn it off and on and get .2 grain flucations after taring each time.  Its a Hornady digital scale.  Not impressed with that.  Measuring .1 gain differences with my beam scale is impossible for me, my Hearstone home isnt level enough.

RCBS Chargemaster 1500 dispenser/scale combo. Best investment I ever made (besides the AR that I usually feed with it)

[unfy]

Now I have several hundred 9mm I am trying to shoot off that contain 5.8gr of Bullseye behind 115gr Rainier HP, don't believe any cases have broke yet, but they sure do fling out of that hi-point (when it works).

You're 26% outside of my reloading books specs (1.2gr over max).

Break it down and don't use it.  You're just asking for a ruined weapon or trip to emergency room.

[Dan W]

Dan,  You are very safe reloader for sure!  I use 4.5 grain with magnum primers in my 9mm, do you think I am pushing the limits?   

No, but you are right at max with Magnum primers. My point is that fast powders like Bullseye can and will go over safe pressures with very little warning at the upper limits, especially in a small case like the 9mm

It ought to be instructive to realize that 4.7gr is max in 9mm, while 4.8gr is max  for a bullet twice the weight in 45ACP. It should make one wonder just why the max is so low in 9mm.

A little investigation on the interwebz reveals that a large group of hand loaders have had problems with near max loads of Bullseye in 9mm. Assuming max is 4.7gr,  then 5.4 to 5.8 grains is flat out dangerous. All it may take is one bullet to set back in the case to turn a firearm into a grenade.

[Ghost]

bradkoll:

Another thing that concerns me is the use of magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye.  Magnum primers are generally recommended only for slow burning, harder to ignite powders, for example, like 2400, in heavier loads in larger cases.  Using magnum primers with a powder like Bullseye can skyrocket pressures to unsafe levels faster than you can say BOOM.   

Listen to what Dan W and unfy are saying.......DON'T SHOOT 'EM!  Break them down, and reuse the components.  I don't want to read about how badly you were injured using too-heavy loads of fast burning powder in small cases with magnum primers.

Ghost

[bk09]

bradkoll:

Another thing that concerns me is the use of magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye.  Magnum primers are generally recommended only for slow burning, harder to ignite powders, for example, like 2400, in heavier loads in larger cases.  Using magnum primers with a powder like Bullseye can skyrocket pressures to unsafe levels faster than you can say BOOM.   

Listen to what Dan W and unfy are saying.......DON'T SHOOT 'EM!  Break them down, and reuse the components.  I don't want to read about how badly you were injured using too-heavy loads of fast burning powder in small cases with magnum primers.

Ghost

I never said anything about magnum primers...

[bk09]

Turns out the most recent load I made was with 4.8gr of bullseye. I used to keep track of my 9mm loads on this one box and when I ran out of space on there I moved them all into small 50 round cardboard boxes. So whatever thread I had of blowing up had it's chance and in allll those rounds I shot never had a problem. Gosh I have never realized how many 9mm I have shot...



You should all be glad to see that I have all the info for my loads organized into a binder and loads posted on everything I make. If anybody wants this template for keeping track of loads let me know and I can email it to you. Took me forever in excel tweaking the spacing to my liking.

[Ghost]

bradkoll: I apologize for mentioning you specifically in my previous post.  I intended for my discussion to be more general, and not specifically pointed to you.

I'll try to restate my thoughts a little more clearly.  This thread has discussed the use of greater than recommended loads of Bullseye powder, and has also discussed the use of magnum primers with Bullseye powder.   

IMO, using greater than recommended loads...even a few tenths of a grain.... of a fast burning powder like Bullseye, can cause a dangerous situation much more quickly than it might with a slower burning powder.

IMO, using magnum primers with a fast burning powder like Bullseye can also cause a dangerous situation, if the powder charge is at or near the maximum recommended.

Again, bradkoll, I apologize for mentioning you specifically.

Ghost 

 

 

[skydve76]

I plan to move away from magnum primers if they would just say in stock.  However lots of people use them and I have about 1K round through 3 guns so I feel pretty good about them.  I did fire off a box of federal brand cheap stuff today from walmart and it produces noticibly more recoil.  Not sure if there is a relationship between recoil and pressure but it sure did seem a lot stiffer and louder.

I've just always used CCI primers and the small pistol non magnum are hard to find right now.  I can get winchester, but the main reason I dont like them is because they arent silver....  They are brass colored.   

Hoping this week to get anothe 2K in primers the right size, and 2K in berrys.  Wish me luck on that.  Wont have the $$ until this week and the supplies are drying up fast.

[unfy]

I've never had ignition problems with winchester small pistol primers..... but... I'd be very uneasy in moving to a magnum primer in it's place for something like 9mm.  Others have mentioned the fast burning powders leading to pressure spikes, and the fact that a magnum primer prolly excasterbates this problem.  I'd concur in a bookworm fashion (lacking personal experience).

Rather than moving to a magnum primer, I'd simply attempt another brand of pistol primers, restarting load data back at the starting recommendations and inching up as usual.

Without any kind of pressure measuring tool, I would be way too chicken to attempt a magnum primer.... especially with fast burning powders.


Stay Safe!

[skydve76]

I traded the magnum primers for the small pistols in CCI.  I'll feel better about then next 1K rounds.

I've read the metal is thicker is all, and CCI engineers say a 5% decrease in powder will more than compensate .   This would make sense with the 4 rounds my gun dented hard and did not set off the primer.  a 2nd hit set them off except 1.

Not sure about you guys, but I get a 5% deviation in my powder measurements using a scoop.  I really dont think it matters except near or over max loads, where it becomes the needle that breaks the camels back type thing.  But of course we want to be safe but just know during a shortage magnum primers are easily had.

[00BUCK]

I plan to move away from magnum primers if they would just say in stock.  However lots of people use them and I have about 1K round through 3 guns so I feel pretty good about them.  I did fire off a box of federal brand cheap stuff today from walmart and it produces noticibly more recoil.  Not sure if there is a relationship between recoil and pressure but it sure did seem a lot stiffer and louder.

I've just always used CCI primers and the small pistol non magnum are hard to find right now.  I can get winchester, but the main reason I dont like them is because they arent silver....  They are brass colored.   

Hoping this week to get anothe 2K in primers the right size, and 2K in berrys.  Wish me luck on that.  Wont have the $$ until this week and the supplies are drying up fast.

Guns Unlimited had a good stock of all CCI primers when i was there on Thursday.

[skydve76]

bot small pistol, they had 1 box up front hiding, they areclean out.  they do have winchester though.