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Masaad Ayoob on encounters with LEOs while carrying
OnTheFly:
I came across this video on YouTube featuring Masaad Ayoob talking about best practices for interacting with LEO during a traffic stop. I was stopped last winter when I slid through an intersection right in front of an police cruiser. I gave them my license, CHP, and vehicle documents, but I did not verbally state that I had a gun on me. My thought was that I am not obligated to provide the CHP unless I AM carrying, so that should have been sufficient notification. When the two officers (training officer and instructor) came back to the vehicle, the training officer informed me that I need to tell them I am carrying or I will be in violation of the statute.
However, Mas Ayoob suggests doing exactly what I did. I'm not sure the Nebraska law is horribly clear. It says you will "inform", but it does not say verbally. Could handing the officer your CHP with your other ID be considered "informing" the officer or emergency personnel. The statute says you are only required to present the CHP if the officer requests it, so would volunteering the CHP ahead of their request "inform" them?
One scenario I thought of is when you have others in the vehicle who don't need to know you are carrying. The officer may take it further buy disarming you, but it likely will just be addressed by the officer asking "are you carrying now", and you answering in the affirmative. In this situation it may be less likely that your passengers will pick up on what is going on.
The other way I thought of dealing with it is handing the officer my documentation with the CHP on top and stating in a clear yet calm and subdued voice, "I'm carrying on my right/left ________". I'm wondering if any non-gun people would even pick up on it.
--- Quote ---69-2440. Permitholder; duties; contact with peace officer or emergency services personnel; procedures for securing handgun.
(1) A permitholder shall carry his or her permit to carry a concealed handgun and his or her Nebraska driver's license, Nebraska-issued state identification card, or military identification card any time he or she carries a concealed handgun. The permitholder shall display both the permit to carry a concealed handgun and his or her Nebraska motor vehicle operator's license, Nebraska-issued state identification card, or military identification card when asked to do so by a peace officer or by emergency services personnel.
(2) Whenever a permitholder who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by a peace officer or by emergency services personnel, the permitholder shall immediately inform the peace officer or emergency services personnel that the permitholder is carrying a concealed handgun.
(3)(a) During contact with a permitholder, a peace officer or emergency services personnel may secure the handgun or direct that it be secured during the duration of the contact if the peace officer or emergency services personnel determines that it is necessary for the safety of any person present, including the peace officer or emergency services personnel. The permitholder shall submit to the order to secure the handgun.
(b)(i) When the peace officer has determined that the permitholder is not a threat to the safety of any person present, including the peace officer, and the permitholder has not committed any other violation that would result in his or her arrest or the suspension or revocation of his or her permit, the peace officer shall return the handgun to the permitholder before releasing the permitholder from the scene and breaking contact.
(ii) When emergency services personnel have determined that the permitholder is not a threat to the safety of any person present, including emergency services personnel, and if the permitholder is physically and mentally capable of possessing the handgun, the emergency services personnel shall return the handgun to the permitholder before releasing the permitholder from the scene and breaking contact. If the permitholder is transported for treatment to another location, the handgun shall be turned over to any peace officer. The peace officer shall provide a receipt which includes the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the handgun.
(4) For purposes of this section, contact with a peace officer means any time a peace officer personally stops, detains, questions, or addresses a permitholder for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties, and contact with emergency services personnel means any time emergency services personnel provide treatment to a permitholder in the course of their official duties.
--- End quote ---
Dan W:
Offering a permit only informs the LEO that you have a permit. The law requires that you inform them that you are carrying a handgun.
The Nebraska Adminstrative code states:
--- Quote ---019.02 A permit holder carrying a concealed handgun who is officially contacted by any peace officer or emergency services personnel must immediately inform the peace officer or emergency service personnel of the concealed handgun unless physically unable to do so.
--- End quote ---
I read that to mean that you must declare the presence of the handgun, not the fact that you have a permit
OnTheFly:
--- Quote from: Dan W on June 01, 2012, 10:58:01 PM ---Offering a permit only informs the LEO that you have a permit. The law requires that you inform them that you are carrying a handgun.
The Nebraska Adminstrative code states:
I read that to mean that you must declare the presence of the handgun, not the fact that you have a permit
--- End quote ---
I think that is the safest interpretation, but I wonder if the argument could be made in court. Of course, I don't want to be the guinea pig.
Fly
bkoenig:
--- Quote from: Dan W on June 01, 2012, 10:58:01 PM ---Offering a permit only informs the LEO that you have a permit. The law requires that you inform them that you are carrying a handgun.
The Nebraska Adminstrative code states:
I read that to mean that you must declare the presence of the handgun, not the fact that you have a permit
--- End quote ---
That is my understanding also.
metaldoc:
When taking my class the instructor related an experience a young woman who had taken his class had with an officer from the Lincoln PD. She had her permit but didn't have a gun on her or in the vehicle when stopped by the police, so she didn't tell them she had a permit. The officer ran her info and came back extremely upset because she hadn't informed him she had a permit and even after she told him she had no weapon, he was insistent she should declared having a CC permit.
Recently a friend of mine was stopped by the State Patrol for speeding. He wasn't carrying at the time but still handed the officer his permit along with his driver's license. The officer asked if he was carrying and he said no. He asked the officer if he had been carrying if the stop would have gone differently and the officer said he would have just asked where the gun was and maybe what it was just out of curiosity. Otherwise, no difference.
So, if we don't have a gun on or with us, should we tell them anyway to head off a confrontation?
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