General Categories > Carry Issues
Masaad Ayoob on encounters with LEOs while carrying
bkoenig:
I have not had LEO contact since getting my permit, but personally I plan to always inform them whether carrying or not, just to avoid trouble. I know it's not required if you're not carrying, but I see it as a courtesy to the officer.
HuskerXDM:
The law only talks about what to do while carrying. However, when my brother and I submitted our curriculum to be instructors, Sgt. Loveless wouldn't approve it without some changes, including that we tell people to inform officers even if not carrying. I don't think the law reads that way, but he's the only guy that reviews instructors so we play the game.
OnTheFly:
All good information, but the underlying point of my post was whether handing the LEO your CHP constitutes "informing" them. According to Ayoob, it does. I think the argument could be made in court because the law is pretty specific when you have to inform ("Whenever a permitholder who is carrying a concealed handgun...") and I can not find a definition of "inform". The argument could be made that an action constitutes informing the LEO, and that is what Ayoob is saying in the video. Again, I'm NOT going to be the one to push this. I think verbal is the safest way to go, but I was thinking about my situation and whether I could have successfully convinced a judge that I had notified the LEO by handing them my permit when I was not obligated to do so.
Just some food for thought if anyone ends up in this dilemma and the LEO files charges against you.
Fly
NE Bull:
The ONE (hmm come to think of it, two) time(s) I was not carrying and had an 'official LEO contact' I just handed the officer my DL and registration, but informed him of my CHP and that I was not armed at this time. One asked to see permit and that I step out and lift shirt for his piece of mind. (then we talked shop as he wrote my warning) The other just said ok, wrote out my 'fix-it-ticket' and told me to stop by the DMV on the way to the shop and get this ol beast tagged. There is alot to be said about mutual respect. As M.A. pointed out, comply with the officer and things SHOULD go smoothly. ( I know, we have all watched the videos and read the stories, but for the most part)
For the most part, the issue is not with the officers it's usually with the LE brass.
OnTheFly:
--- Quote from: HuskerXDM on June 02, 2012, 08:56:12 AM ---The law only talks about what to do while carrying. However, when my brother and I submitted our curriculum to be instructors, Sgt. Loveless wouldn't approve it without some changes, including that we tell people to inform officers even if not carrying. I don't think the law reads that way, but he's the only guy that reviews instructors so we play the game.
--- End quote ---
I hear what you are saying HuskerXDM. You are probably correct that being non-confrontational with someone who is the one and only roadblock to your progress is the smartest choice, but I personally would have a hard time going against what I know is correct. The problem I see with that is that you are supposed to be teaching what is in your syllabus, and how do you do that when it is contrary to the law? It seems that if a LEO were to monitor your class with syllabus in hand, and you were to correctly teach (contrary to your syllabus) what the law says, they could be coming down on you and your certification. Maybe they never monitor and/or it doesn't work that way, but it could be a sticky situation.
I had a similar situation with a Fed at the local FAA office. I called and asked some guy I didn't know a question. In the course of the conversation he said the regulations said I could not act as a Check Airman for my company because I did not have an instructor certificate. I told him there was NO such requirement and he insisted there was. After we hung up, I looked up the regulation to confirm what I already knew and get a reference. I then called back to the FAA and jokingly told the receptionist (who I used to work with) that I needed to straighten the inspector out because he told me something that was flat out wrong. Oh Boy! That's the last time I joke around with someone at the FAA because I'm pretty sure those are the exact words she said to the FAA inspector. He got on the line and was immediately yelling at me so I yelled over the top of him and said "You told me XYZ and you are flat out WRONG!". He finally stopped and paused, then said "What was the regulation?" and "Can you call me back in 15 minutes?". I told him I would, hung up, and then worried for the next 15 minutes whether I told him I was in Lincoln crewing a plane that was sitting at Duncan Aviation because he would surely come down and give me a ramp inspection until he found something to bust me on.
I called him back as planned. Low and behold he was my best friend now. He said "I tell you what...we were both right and we were both wrong". Inside I'm thinking "Bull Hockey!", but I just swallowed the words. He knew he was wrong and I was satisfied.
Fly
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