Watch This Story: Gunman kills 1, wounds 9 at Empire State Building

[DaveB]

What would have happened in NY if it would have been a civilian with a CWP that killed the guy and still wounded 9 other innocent people. Would it have just been "one of those things"?

[cckyle]

What would have happened in NY if it would have been a civilian with a CWP that killed the guy and still wounded 9 other innocent people. Would it have just been "one of those things"?

1 charge of 2nd degree murder and 9 charges of attempted manslaughter, along with some other misc. charges/weapon offenses.  That's what would have happened. 

[cckyle]

Just a side thought.  Has anyone heard of this before??  I just read a couple sources that said NYPD requires a 12lb trigger pull on service firearms.  Wonder if this could have any implications on the accuracy of shot's fired by officers in this instance.  I'm sure if you trained with that trigger pull you could become more accurate with it, but still a 12lb trigger pull would effect accuracy in any instance. 

[SemperFiGuy]

That point was well made by Dave Hineline up above:

Have you ever shot a Glock with a New York trigger?

Noo Yawk Triggers are indeed 12 pounds.

Takes two hands, like a Whopper.

Can't help accuracy very much.    Maybe current situation under scrutiny is a case in point.

sfg

[HuskerXDM]

That point was well made by Dave Hineline up above:

Noo Yawk Triggers are indeed 12 pounds.

Takes two hands, like a Whopper.

That point was well made by Dave Hineline up above:

Noo Yawk Triggers are indeed 12 pounds.

Takes two hands, like a Whopper.

Can't help accuracy very much.    Maybe current situation under scrutiny is a case in point.

sfg

sfg

It appears to me the officer on the right is firing one-handed.  That would be rough with a 12 pound trigger under stress...

[Chris C]

That point was well made by Dave Hineline up above:

Noo Yawk Triggers are indeed 12 pounds.

Takes two hands, like a Whopper.

Can't help accuracy very much.    Maybe current situation under scrutiny is a case in point.

sfg

In this article they test the accuracy of the heavy trigger pull.  http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/nypds-choice-of-firearm-may-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/

[SemperFiGuy]

Please forgive me, all those who may have taken me literally about "two hands" being needed on a 12-pound New York Glock trigger.   I was using excessive hyperbole to make a point about the difficulty of that particular trigger setup.

One hand will indeed work on a 12-pound New York Glock trigger.

Nevertheless, a 12-pound trigger is one heckuva pull.   Might just cause your barrel to drift and leave the target.   Might.

That excellent article posted just above [including all the comments] sheds more light on this situation.

sfg

[OnTheFly]

I find it ironic that New York's anti-gun paranoia would cause them to neuter the very police force employed to keep the city safe.

It is reminiscent of the movie Demolition Man.

Fly

[Dan W]

It was the inability of the NYPD to display any type of trigger control that brought about the  Glock NY trigger spring. It was intended to prevent accidental ( read negligent) discharges

[DaveB]

It was the inability of the NYPD to display any type of trigger control that brought about the  Glock NY trigger spring. It was intended to prevent accidental ( read negligent) discharges

So, by that logic, the NYPD "meant" to shoot those innocent bystanders!

[OnTheFly]

I think a good solution is to make the NYPD keep their guns unloaded, disassembled, locked in a box, and secured in the trunk of the cruisers.  That way, the people of NYC will be safe.

Fly

[sidearm1]

I know I shouldn't, but I can't resist.  You mean all of those years when I was required to qualify with the Smith and Wesson Model 10, double action only, I was being trained to miss.  You know those awful 12 to 13 Lb double action trigger.  Good grief, I simply can't figure out how I qualified, year after year.

I know the above is tongue in cheek, but.  You only do what you are trained and PREPARED to do.  If your trigger pull is stiff and you cannot reduce it because of Political requirements, you still learn to shoot the thing.  If you are not prepared to take an active role in a firefight, then you will not hit anything when you do.  The static line is fun, but when you put all of the dynamics of a real encounter, the commando talk goes out the door and the real training come in.

[SemperFiGuy]

We Can All Hope.............

that the NYPD gets this particular problem fixed before it's New Year's Eve in Times Square.


sfg

[cckyle]

If you are not prepared to take an active role in a firefight, then you will not hit anything when you do. 

O, these LEOs hit something, that's for sure.   

I agree with you, training is important and you can become efficient w/ a higher lb trigger pull.  However, I still think a heavy trigger pull, especially a 12 or more lb trigger pull, is likely to result in a less accurate shot more often than not than a lighter trigger pull.  Especially if, like you said, one isn't as trained as they should/could be with the heavier trigger pull.   Then again I haven't shot/practiced with any trigger pull over 7 or 8 lbs.   

[Kendahl]

If your trigger pull is stiff and you cannot reduce it because of Political requirements, you still learn to shoot the thing.

Agreed, but you will shoot faster and more accurately with a better trigger.