General Categories > Carry Issues
Role of EMS/EMT Personnel in Securing Handgun During Emergency
wallace11bravo:
Clark; there is no article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice that states a wounded person must be disarmed. What I was referring to has nothing to do with legality, it has to do with medical doctrine and protocols. I was attempting to demonstrate that the law is not motivated by gun grabbers, but by long standing medical practices. But of course, all you can think of is "military dictatorship"... Should have seen it coming.
Clark and others; So you are saying that an emergency responder has no right to ensure the safety of themselves and those around them? Mental status can rapidly deteriorate with a variety of conditions such as hypovolemic shock or hypoglycemia. By the time an altered mental status can be detected, it may already be too late, and I, for one, will not attempt to manually disarm someone pointing a weapon at me, as I am not a ninja.
sjwsti:
I`ll try to keep this short and sweet as it is obvious that you need to have your meds adjusted ;)
--- Quote from: CitizenClark on December 01, 2012, 12:25:30 PM ---The whole point of the right to keep and bear arms is to be able to defend yourself against tyranny. I can't imagine an emptier legal right to keep and bear arms than one that allows for any armed agent of the state or other "emergency responder" to arbitrarily disarm you.
--- End quote ---
If you dont like the law, work to change it. Using emergency responder and "tyrannical agent of the state" in the same sentence is so ridiculous that you made me laugh.
--- Quote from: CitizenClark on December 01, 2012, 12:27:14 PM ---I shouldn't have to sign anything to be left alone. If you lay your hands on me against my will, you are committing a battery.
My right to keep and bear arms should not be dependent on your ego.
--- End quote ---
A refusal of treatment form is simply a release of legal liability for the responder if you are advised to seek treatment and refuse to do so. If you suffer further injury or illness later its not our fault. Your free to refuse treatment and free to not sign. I will simply document your refusal in my report. You wont be "forced" to sign and if you believe this you are mistaken.
--- Quote from: CitizenClark on December 01, 2012, 12:30:43 PM ---If you choose to be some sort of emergency responder, as far as I am concerned you are assuming the risks that come along with that choice. Your choice doesn't give you any right to abridge my liberty.
--- End quote ---
I gladly assume the risks that come with my job. Every day I do what I can to reduce and manage those risks so I and my crew go home in one piece. If that means hurting your feelings so be it.
To insinuate that you are being victimized by emergency responders, simply by having your weapon temporarily secured for safety reasons, is BS and insulting.
There are a number of risks that we as CCW holders assume by carrying a weapon. Being involved in a medical or traumatic emergency while armed and having to have that weapon secured is one of them.
- Shawn
NENick:
--- Quote from: DaveB on December 01, 2012, 12:51:11 PM ---I guess I'm not the one with my panties in a bunch. Disarming free and legal gun owners just because you can is more a show of power than a show of duty.
Once an injured person is showing aggression with a weapon, he then becomes a threat, it is then and only then should all procedures be stopped until such a time as the person can be disarmed and treated safely.
I am entitled to my opinion, unless someone decides they are better than me and wish to remove that right from me.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you. It seems the typical concerns that non gunowners have about concealed carry are part of this. The Antis don't trust concealed carry and therefore may be interested in disarming us.
It seems that same zero tolerance aspect emerges in these LEO discussions as well. You EMTs are telling us the same sort of thing that the Antis do. I'm speaking in generality, and do understand what I’ve accepted with getting the CHP. The law is the law.
We have to give up our freedom to protect ourselves in order to receive care and services that we pay for. You are our employees.
If a massive storm blows through and wipes city infrastructure, it is very clear that the government cannot (regardless of desire) provide the services that most people anticipate.
Passes soap box off to the next in line =). There's no one I like to see more than a trained professional when someone gets hurt or my house is burning down.
gsd:
--- Quote from: DaveB on December 01, 2012, 01:18:40 PM ---I understand the law, and to a point I understand the concern, but what I don't understand is a law that allows common good people to have their rights removed when the common thug isn't going to say anything until it's too late. I am required to inform, where a bad guy is not. Which one are you going to feel safer around as an EMT?
Would I voluntarily give up my gun to an EMT? Sure I would because I do my best to follow the law. That still does not make it right to me, but I am not out to scare good people by having a gun.
--- End quote ---
Oh trust me, we would find it quickly. Part of our job is a hands-on physical assessment of all limbs. If we feel something that isn't supposed to be there, we are going to look/ask.
NENick:
--- Quote from: sjwsti on December 01, 2012, 01:34:39 PM ---I`ll try to keep this short and sweet as it is obvious that you need to have your meds adjusted ;)
If you dont like the law, work to change it. Using emergency responder and "tyrannical agent of the state" in the same sentence is so ridiculous that you made me laugh.
--- End quote ---
Shawn, as an EMT, you are government. Time and again, the government has proven extremely capable of using any and every tool/reason to maintain its power and increase it. The government wants the best, most convincing reason, to justify anything that it does. An example of this would be protecting endangered species by freezing your ability use your land for whatever. No one wants to kill off a species... It's a different subject, but the pattern is always the same.
Your safety is extremely important, but we always have to remain vigilant when it comes to yielding freedom.
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